The Corporate Blackmailing of America is Now All the Rage

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The Corporate Blackmailing of America is Now All the Rage
Tweet Topic Started: Nov 15 2012, 09:43 AM (2,028 Views)
Renauda	Nov 15 2012, 05:21 PM Post #51
HOLY CARP!!! Posts: 10,507 Group: Members Member #505 Joined: September 5, 2007	Copper Maybe if you can get ren to lift his prohibition you can explain to us again about Canadian MRI exams. Why don't you explain it, Clipper. You're the expert or so you wish to seen around these parts. BTW, I've rarely, if ever, seen you yet to attempt to prove many of your reactionary and specious claims.



Copper	Nov 15 2012, 05:40 PM Post #52
Shortstop Posts: 29,905 Group: Members Member #426 Joined: February 14, 2007	Renauda Nov 15 2012, 05:21 PM Copper Maybe if you can get ren to lift his prohibition you can explain to us again about Canadian MRI exams. Why don't you explain it, Clipper. You're the expert or so you wish to seen around these parts. BTW, I've rarely, if ever, seen you yet to attempt to prove many of your reactionary and specious claims. That's kind of a reactionary and specious claim. Now if you want to revisit the MRI question, let's go. http://s10.zetaboards.com/The_New_Coffee_Room/single/?p=8994203&t=7428943 As you can see, I made a very well defined claim and simultaneously backed it up. I never claimed to be any sort of expert, that is another of your reactionary and specious claims. Would you like to help Mr. t find the backup for "never a documented case"?
	The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy


Renauda	Nov 15 2012, 06:25 PM Post #53
HOLY CARP!!! Posts: 10,507 Group: Members Member #505 Joined: September 5, 2007	Here's something more up to date: https://secure.cihi.ca/free_products/WaitTimesSummary2012_EN.pdf Some more: http://canadaonline.about.com/od/healthcarewaittimes/Wait_Times_for_Health_Care_in_Canada.htm even more: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/story/2012/10/19/ottawa-mri-kingston-clinic-non-profit-short-wait-times.html In fact here's the whole Google search: https://www.google.ca/#hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_nf=3&tok=2OcDV_RsPWR_FUo9E5O2rg&pq=Canada%20MRi%20wait%20times&cp=10&gs_id=5&xhr=t&q=Canada%20MRI%20wait%20times&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&oq=Canada+MRI+wait+times&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=7c81a5ad6a459c1b&bpcl=38625945&biw=1016&bih=563 Have at it. Enjoy.



Copper	Nov 15 2012, 06:59 PM Post #54
Shortstop Posts: 29,905 Group: Members Member #426 Joined: February 14, 2007	Some wait times have been reduced. This is wonderful news!
	The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy


ivorythumper	Nov 15 2012, 07:38 PM Post #55
I am so adjective that I verb nouns! Posts: 50,666 Group: Members Member #164 Joined: April 24, 2005	Here's the liberal logic on the whole thing. I don't even get the analogy.
	The dogma lives loudly within me.


1hp	Nov 15 2012, 08:22 PM Post #56
Fulla-Carp Posts: 4,749 Group: Members Member #391 Joined: September 21, 2006	Quote: Bingo. ACA is a very flawed as it stands but it was the best that could be pushed through a Congress that is largely bought and sold to corporate interests: insurance, big pharma and the often overlooked for-profit medical establishments. OK, this comment just leaps out as plain wrong Kathy. Face it, there was no pushing required - the president had complete control of both houses with Democrat majorities. ACA is the best that Obama could possibly come up with, end of story. There was no pushing required. Now if you're suggesting that these same Democrat members of Congress had been bought by corporate America then I think many who support and voted for them would be shocked. As a comment aside, the cost of medical insurance is still going up (as evidenced by the medical plans offered by my company). ACA does not seem to have taken care of the cost of medical care thus far, which I thought most had agreed was the main problem that needed solving.
	There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those that understand binary and................


Renauda	Nov 16 2012, 06:25 AM Post #57
HOLY CARP!!! Posts: 10,507 Group: Members Member #505 Joined: September 5, 2007	Copper Nov 15 2012, 06:59 PM Some wait times have been reduced. This is wonderful news! Not only that but across the country there's also plenty of world class public and privately funded research and innovation taking place in diagnostic, patient care and surgical techinques. This is a great country, a shame that you would probably be regarded as a subversive element and be denied entry.



Copper	Nov 16 2012, 07:22 AM Post #58
Shortstop Posts: 29,905 Group: Members Member #426 Joined: February 14, 2007	Renauda Nov 16 2012, 06:25 AM Copper Nov 15 2012, 06:59 PM Some wait times have been reduced. This is wonderful news! Not only that but across the country there's also plenty of world class public and privately funded research and innovation taking place in diagnostic, patient care and surgical techinques. This is a great country, a shame that you would probably be regarded as a subversive element and be denied entry. You would be welcome here with open arms.
	The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy


Renauda	Nov 16 2012, 08:18 AM Post #59
HOLY CARP!!! Posts: 10,507 Group: Members Member #505 Joined: September 5, 2007	I doubt it, I'm not in need of seeking refuge, a fair weather retirement escape or a visit to some over priced Disney property.



Steve Miller	Nov 16 2012, 08:30 AM Post #60
Bull-Carp Posts: 7,637 Group: Members Member #25 Joined: April 19, 2005	Larry Nov 15 2012, 10:37 AM Because it makes a statement that those who support this sort of sh!t can understand. Actually, the statement you'll be making is that feel so strongly that Papa John's should make money that you don't mind paying his employees' medical bills. It's the WalMart model - very effective - and the ACA doesn't change it much.
	Wag more Bark less


ivorythumper	Nov 16 2012, 08:37 AM Post #61
I am so adjective that I verb nouns! Posts: 50,666 Group: Members Member #164 Joined: April 24, 2005	Steve Miller Nov 16 2012, 08:30 AM Larry Nov 15 2012, 10:37 AM Because it makes a statement that those who support this sort of sh!t can understand. Actually, the statement you'll be making is that feel so strongly that Papa John's should make money that you don't mind paying his employees' medical bills. It's the WalMart model - very effective - and the ACA doesn't change it much. I think that is wrongly stated -- there is no inherent moral obligation for an employer to pay anyone's medical. It was custom as part of a benefits package to attract better employees in a competitive market and part of negotiated bargaining by unions. Obama forced it by his mandate. It is still nominally the duty of each person to take care of one's own medical -- just like their food and housing and transportation and clothing and vacations -- but Obama again made it the legal obligation of some people to pay for others (and of course exempted a lot of his friends and contributors from that obligation).
	The dogma lives loudly within me.


Aqua Letifer	Nov 16 2012, 08:39 AM Post #62
ZOOOOOM! Posts: 45,901 Group: Members Member #262 Joined: September 22, 2005	ivorythumper Nov 16 2012, 08:37 AM It is still nominally the duty of each person to take care of one's own medical... I think that is an oversimplification and not anymore justifiable in our society.
	I cite irreconcilable differences.


Axtremus	Nov 16 2012, 08:43 AM Post #63
HOLY CARP!!! Posts: 35,700 Group: Members Member #15 Joined: April 18, 2005	ivorythumper Nov 16 2012, 08:37 AM It is still nominally the duty of each person to take care of one's own medical -- just like their food and housing and transportation and clothing and vacations -- but Obama again made it the legal obligation of some people to pay for others (and of course exempted a lot of his friends and contributors from that obligation). Legislation that mandates emergency medical care for all ER comers have been in existence before Obama. You cannot pin this as something new that's introduced by Obama.



ivorythumper	Nov 16 2012, 08:51 AM Post #64
I am so adjective that I verb nouns! Posts: 50,666 Group: Members Member #164 Joined: April 24, 2005	Aqua Letifer Nov 16 2012, 08:39 AM ivorythumper Nov 16 2012, 08:37 AM It is still nominally the duty of each person to take care of one's own medical... I think that is an oversimplification and not anymore justifiable in our society. Uhh... really --- you had better be the first one to attend to your own medical if you want to get better quicker.
	The dogma lives loudly within me.


ivorythumper	Nov 16 2012, 08:53 AM Post #65
I am so adjective that I verb nouns! Posts: 50,666 Group: Members Member #164 Joined: April 24, 2005	Axtremus Nov 16 2012, 08:43 AM ivorythumper Nov 16 2012, 08:37 AM It is still nominally the duty of each person to take care of one's own medical -- just like their food and housing and transportation and clothing and vacations -- but Obama again made it the legal obligation of some people to pay for others (and of course exempted a lot of his friends and contributors from that obligation). Legislation that mandates emergency medical care for all ER comers have been in existence before Obama. You cannot pin this as something new that's introduced by Obama. Is that really what you got out of what I wrote?
	The dogma lives loudly within me.


Aqua Letifer	Nov 16 2012, 09:00 AM Post #66
ZOOOOOM! Posts: 45,901 Group: Members Member #262 Joined: September 22, 2005	ivorythumper Nov 16 2012, 08:51 AM Uhh... really --- you had better be the first one to attend to your own medical if you want to get better quicker. Yes, and it's a good thing no one is ever so sick they can't get themselves to the hospital on their own, or else that plan would have some serious flaws. And anyway that's not really what I meant.
	I cite irreconcilable differences.


Larry	Nov 16 2012, 09:00 AM Post #67
Mmmmmmm, pie! Posts: 47,996 Group: Members Member #113 Joined: April 22, 2005	Too many people today have forgotten how to take care of themselves. They think they're "entitled".
	Of the Pokatwat Tribe


Aqua Letifer	Nov 16 2012, 09:02 AM Post #68
ZOOOOOM! Posts: 45,901 Group: Members Member #262 Joined: September 22, 2005	Larry Nov 16 2012, 09:00 AM Too many people today have forgotten how to take care of themselves. For some people that is simply impossible.
	I cite irreconcilable differences.


Larry	Nov 16 2012, 09:04 AM Post #69
Mmmmmmm, pie! Posts: 47,996 Group: Members Member #113 Joined: April 22, 2005	That's what charities are for. It's not the government's job to take care of you. It's not the government's job to force business to take care of you.
	Of the Pokatwat Tribe


Steve Miller	Nov 16 2012, 09:05 AM Post #70
Bull-Carp Posts: 7,637 Group: Members Member #25 Joined: April 19, 2005	ivorythumper Nov 16 2012, 08:37 AM ...there is no inherent moral obligation for an employer to pay anyone's medical. That's certainly true, but employer-paid insurance has become the most common way to get insurance in this country. That's changing now, and Walmart pioneered the effort - pay low wages, keep everyone part time so they don't get benefits and if they get sick let them go to the ER so taxpayers pick up the tab. If that is going to be the model you might as well go to single payer so responsible employers don't wend up at a competitive disadvantage.
	Wag more Bark less


Larry	Nov 16 2012, 09:06 AM Post #71
Mmmmmmm, pie! Posts: 47,996 Group: Members Member #113 Joined: April 22, 2005	Don't blame Walmart for the corner big government has backed business into.
	Of the Pokatwat Tribe


Aqua Letifer	Nov 16 2012, 09:11 AM Post #72
ZOOOOOM! Posts: 45,901 Group: Members Member #262 Joined: September 22, 2005	Larry Nov 16 2012, 09:04 AM That's what charities are for. It's not the government's job to take care of you. It's not the government's job to force business to take care of you. That's certainly one way to approach it, sure. I personally believe that some level of basic health care (we can argue about the details of what that entails) is a public good, and beneficial to society, not a detriment. From a labor standpoint, healthy individuals can do much more than those too sick to work.
	I cite irreconcilable differences.


Larry	Nov 16 2012, 09:15 AM Post #73
Mmmmmmm, pie! Posts: 47,996 Group: Members Member #113 Joined: April 22, 2005	Quote: I personally believe that some level of basic health care (we can argue about the details of what that entails) is a public good, and beneficial to society, not a detriment. From a labor standpoint, healthy individuals can do much more than those too sick to work. We had that, and the Left fcked it up by loading the hospitals with illegal aliens. But you're correct - healthy employees are an asset to business. And if the government got out of the way and allowed business to grow, if the Left stopped fcking up the works with their jealous hatred of capitalism, companies would grow, the labor market would become more competitive, and business would be able to afford to compete to get quality workers. That's how it works. The INSTANT you stick government in the way, it all falls apart.
	Of the Pokatwat Tribe


ivorythumper	Nov 16 2012, 09:17 AM Post #74
I am so adjective that I verb nouns! Posts: 50,666 Group: Members Member #164 Joined: April 24, 2005	Steve Miller Nov 16 2012, 09:05 AM ivorythumper Nov 16 2012, 08:37 AM ...there is no inherent moral obligation for an employer to pay anyone's medical. That's certainly true, but employer-paid insurance has become the most common way to get insurance in this country. That's changing now, and Walmart pioneered the effort - pay low wages, keep everyone part time so they don't get benefits and if they get sick let them go to the ER so taxpayers pick up the tab. If that is going to be the model you might as well go to single payer so responsible employers don't wend up at a competitive disadvantage. There are all other sorts of solutions that are more practical (such as the Dutch model) that no one seems to be interested in -- the recourse for the Left is immediately to the centralized, bureaucratic, monopolistic, collectivist government model.
	The dogma lives loudly within me.


Aqua Letifer	Nov 16 2012, 09:20 AM Post #75
ZOOOOOM! Posts: 45,901 Group: Members Member #262 Joined: September 22, 2005	Larry Nov 16 2012, 09:15 AM That's how it works. The INSTANT you stick government in the way, it all falls apart. I'm not sure about that. To be clear, I am not a fan of Obamacare at all. I think that trying to fix a ****ed up system by forcing people into it is about the worst decision-making I've come across. But I still think that there are ways in which the government itself could provide basic services so that businesses don't have to, thereby reducing the burden for companies and employees. Heck I don't even think increased taxes would be necessary to cover this, the way we waste so many tax dollars as it is.
	I cite irreconcilable differences.

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