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Death by Starvation
Topic Started: Oct 7 2012, 03:45 AM (785 Views)
Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Piano*Dad
Oct 8 2012, 03:00 AM
Alas, because it's a rather .... good one. And it was where my spouse worked, which gives all sorts of advantages. Says a lot about the norm, n'est-ce pas? US hospitals make a lot of mistakes. I think I have read about that in some US newspapers recently.

The whole point is that a story about systematic medical mistakes in GB, without any context, and in a rather right-wing British newspaper is, well, a news story in a newspaper. It's not evidence of the cosmic evilness of the NHS and the Godly virtue of the American health care system. Glib politicization of such a story is a hallmark of an echo-chamber forum. I pointed that out. That's all.
How did you know the hospital was a good one?
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
It is not enough to glibly say 'oh, well we make medical errors too'. The article does not cite medical errors but neglect.

In order to know if this is something comparable to US medical mistakes one would have to know how many patients here died of neglectful thirst, starvation or infections due to lack of wound care.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Mikhailoh
Oct 8 2012, 06:38 AM
It is not enough to glibly say 'oh, well we make medical errors too'. The article does not cite medical errors but neglect.

In order to know if this is something comparable to US medical mistakes one would have to know how many patients here died of neglectful thirst, starvation or infections due to lack of wound care.
Even if you do that, you'd still have much more research to perform if you wanted to attribute the incidents in the UK to socialized medicine, rather than the British health care system in particular.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Mikhailoh
Oct 8 2012, 06:38 AM
It is not enough to glibly say 'oh, well we make medical errors too'. The article does not cite medical errors but neglect.

In order to know if this is something comparable to US medical mistakes one would have to know how many patients here died of neglectful thirst, starvation or infections due to lack of wound care.
If you want to make genuine comparisons between the two systems, there's a bigger picture to consider. You also have to look at people who die because they don't report illness since they can't afford health insurance and are terrified of being bankrupted by illness. Sure, they're not killed by medical errors, but they may die because of problems associated with the system.

Personally, I prefer the US system, the quality of care we've received is much higher than I got in the UK. However, I'm employed by someone who is willing to pay through the nose for my health insurance.

As I said before, there's plenty wrong with the British system, however using that as some kind of justification for staying with the current US system isn't the point. The point should be let's improve both systems to give as many people as possible decent quality healthcare.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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George K
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Finally
John D'Oh
Oct 8 2012, 06:48 AM
Personally, I prefer the US system, the quality of care we've received is much higher than I got in the UK.
Just curious: How do you judge that?
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"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
George K
Oct 8 2012, 06:50 AM
John D'Oh
Oct 8 2012, 06:48 AM
Personally, I prefer the US system, the quality of care we've received is much higher than I got in the UK.
Just curious: How do you judge that?
This is just my personal experience: Much less over-crowding. Much shorter waiting times. A general feeling that you're not being rushed, and that the hospital is adequately funded.

Obviously, this isn't exactly a scientific method, but to be honest I don't think one is needed. It's abundently clear that the amount of money available in the hospitals I've visited is a lot more than is available in a similar hospital in the UK.


We got a free breakfast buffet when Mrs. D'Oh gave birth to our daughter! Whether this is a justifiable use of money is open to debate, but it was very welcome. It was like being in a hotel, and I wasn't even the patient.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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somebody else's sock
Middle Aged Carp
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/08/opinion/keller-how-to-die.html?pagewanted=all
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George K
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Finally
somebody else's sock
Oct 8 2012, 07:39 AM
Like I said:
Quote:
 
The patient and his family concurred.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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somebody else's sock
Middle Aged Carp
Just a few minutes of Googling unearthed these:

http://www.ccfj.net/NHSTLseries.html

http://www2.dailyprogress.com/news/2012/oct/03/virginia-hospital-case-shows-confusing-bureaucracy-ar-2254670/


I think it's highly unlikely that the Brits are a lot worse at this than other countries are.

The point is, once we've gotten past the horror of what happens, what do we do to fix it?
Edited by somebody else's sock, Oct 8 2012, 08:39 AM.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Initially I thought the thread title was the punchline to the well known question:

"What do you get when you combine hospital food and English cuisine?"
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
John D'Oh
Oct 8 2012, 06:48 AM
Mikhailoh
Oct 8 2012, 06:38 AM
It is not enough to glibly say 'oh, well we make medical errors too'. The article does not cite medical errors but neglect.

In order to know if this is something comparable to US medical mistakes one would have to know how many patients here died of neglectful thirst, starvation or infections due to lack of wound care.
If you want to make genuine comparisons between the two systems, there's a bigger picture to consider. You also have to look at people who die because they don't report illness since they can't afford health insurance and are terrified of being bankrupted by illness. Sure, they're not killed by medical errors, but they may die because of problems associated with the system.

Personally, I prefer the US system, the quality of care we've received is much higher than I got in the UK. However, I'm employed by someone who is willing to pay through the nose for my health insurance.

As I said before, there's plenty wrong with the British system, however using that as some kind of justification for staying with the current US system isn't the point. The point should be let's improve both systems to give as many people as possible decent quality healthcare.
You seem to assiduously ignore the point about neglect.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Jane D'Oh
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Fulla-Carp
IT, taking a wild guess (who can understand the mind of Mr. D'Oh?) I would translate his statement to mean that while in the UK patients died of neglect in the hospital, in the US they are dying of neglect to provide any affordable care. Or something along those lines.
Pfft.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Jane D'Oh
Oct 8 2012, 10:02 AM
IT, taking a wild guess (who can understand the mind of Mr. D'Oh?) I would translate his statement to mean that while in the UK patients died of neglect in the hospital, in the US they are dying of neglect to provide any affordable care. Or something along those lines.
Which is just a sloppy way of equivocating between two very different meanings of "neglect". It seems obvious that neglecting to give food and water to someone who is bedridden and under your care of duty is significantly (morally, ethically, legally, experientially, existentially) different from neglecting to have a system where 100% of the people have free healthcare.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
ivorythumper
Oct 8 2012, 10:20 AM
Jane D'Oh
Oct 8 2012, 10:02 AM
IT, taking a wild guess (who can understand the mind of Mr. D'Oh?) I would translate his statement to mean that while in the UK patients died of neglect in the hospital, in the US they are dying of neglect to provide any affordable care. Or something along those lines.
Which is just a sloppy way of equivocating between two very different meanings of "neglect". It seems obvious that neglecting to give food and water to someone who is bedridden and under your care of duty is significantly (morally, ethically, legally, experientially, existentially) different from neglecting to have a system where 100% of the people have free healthcare.
They'll still be dead, even after the enormously long-winded discussion which you're trying to start. The only real difference will be that I'll wish I was, too :lol:
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
John D'Oh
Oct 8 2012, 10:42 AM
ivorythumper
Oct 8 2012, 10:20 AM
Jane D'Oh
Oct 8 2012, 10:02 AM
IT, taking a wild guess (who can understand the mind of Mr. D'Oh?) I would translate his statement to mean that while in the UK patients died of neglect in the hospital, in the US they are dying of neglect to provide any affordable care. Or something along those lines.
Which is just a sloppy way of equivocating between two very different meanings of "neglect". It seems obvious that neglecting to give food and water to someone who is bedridden and under your care of duty is significantly (morally, ethically, legally, experientially, existentially) different from neglecting to have a system where 100% of the people have free healthcare.
They'll still be dead, even after the enormously long-winded discussion which you're trying to start. The only real difference will be that I'll wish I was, too :lol:
Do you prefer a quick pillow over the face or a long slow lingering death from hydration? Either can be arranged.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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big al
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Bull-Carp
Good reason to have an advance care directive. That way everyone will know what your preference is. However, I haven't seen the pillow as a choice, at least in this state.

Big Al
Location: Western PA

"jesu, der simcha fun der man's farlangen."
-bachophile
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
My preference is to be smothered by a nurse. Of course, if the wife reads it, I'm likely to be strangled before said nurse arrives.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Jane D'Oh
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Fulla-Carp
Nah you can still be smothered by the nurse if you like. Just bear in mind that by the time she arrives you'll have no nuts.
Pfft.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
You're supposed to bring grapes to a freaking hospital, not nuts. I could choke on them.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
John D'Oh
Oct 9 2012, 12:09 PM
My preference is to be smothered by a nurse.
Which one (pictures)?
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