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| Death by Starvation | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 7 2012, 03:45 AM (786 Views) | |
| Jolly | Oct 7 2012, 03:45 AM Post #1 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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In hospital, BTW: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9591814/Patients-starve-and-die-of-thirst-on-hospital-wards.html |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| apple | Oct 7 2012, 03:53 AM Post #2 |
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one of the angels
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isn't that awful? When i was a kid - my mom sent me up to the nursing home to give the patients water and help them get to the bathroom. a Lot of us school kids did that in the summer. the nuns really depended on it. funny tho, that i told I was hired to play the piano. |
| it behooves me to behold | |
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| Mikhailoh | Oct 7 2012, 04:31 AM Post #3 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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Awful I guess. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| George K | Oct 7 2012, 02:30 PM Post #4 |
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Finally
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According to former Enron adviser Paul Krugman, "In Britain, the government itself runs the hospitals and employs the doctors. We've all heard scare stories about how that works in practice; these stories are false.
Edited by George K, Oct 7 2012, 02:30 PM.
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| Piano*Dad | Oct 7 2012, 03:25 PM Post #5 |
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Bull-Carp
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George, How many terminal patients are allowed to pass away in the US, in private hospitals I might add, when doctors advise families to withhold bag after bag of liquid nutrition that has become pointless. We can discuss end of life choices if we wish, but it doesn't sit well when the issue is politicized in this fashion. |
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| ivorythumper | Oct 7 2012, 03:31 PM Post #6 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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Shouldn't we be honest and just snuff them out with a pillow over the face? |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| George K | Oct 7 2012, 03:33 PM Post #7 |
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Finally
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Agreed. But, it's done with the patient's (implicit) consent or with the family's explicit consent. That's a bit different from this:
or this:
Are those political comments? How is a patient not assessed for 16 days? How his another (22 years old) allowed to die despite the requests of his family to attend to his needs? |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| Amanda | Oct 7 2012, 03:44 PM Post #8 |
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Senior Carp
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I read about that young man, who died of thirst after calling 911 (equivalent) for drinks. This has special meaning for me, as my most feared forms of death are suffocation (first) and thirst (second). However, I wonder what we are to make of this horror story, since the patients are in Great Britain. Surely, the stories have human meaning wherever they took place, but are we to assume anything special because of the country whose medical system dictated this failure of care? |
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[size=5] We should tolerate eccentricity in others, almost to the point of lunacy, provided no one else is harmed.[/size] "Daily Telegraph", London July 27 2005 | |
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| jon-nyc | Oct 7 2012, 04:09 PM Post #9 |
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Cheers
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Its not so much that the comment is political, but the idea of starting a thread every time there's a publicized error or malpractice in the NIH that results in death seems political to me. I mean, obviously our non-socialized healthcare system doesn't have errors that result in death, but that's no reason to rub it in to the Eurocommies. |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| Piano*Dad | Oct 7 2012, 04:54 PM Post #10 |
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Bull-Carp
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Indeed. Reread your post, George. The implication that I took away is that commie dummies like Krugman, and socialized health care systems in general, behave in abominable ways. |
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| John D'Oh | Oct 7 2012, 04:57 PM Post #11 |
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MAMIL
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My personal experience of the NHS is that there is a lot of room for improvement, however it's nowhere near as bad as might be thought after reading this article. I prefer the Canadian system, with privately run hospitals but public health insurance. I'm sure it's possible to find examples of bad things happening in Canada, too. Since neither the NHS or the Canadian system bear any resemblance to the proposed American system a/k/a Rombama-care, I'm not sure what you're all worrying about. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| Horace | Oct 7 2012, 05:18 PM Post #12 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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The sanctity and pricelessness of health care is one of the most disgusting political football's I've ever witnessed. It's all so obviously traceable to money rather than "health". |
| As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good? | |
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| Amanda | Oct 7 2012, 05:22 PM Post #13 |
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Senior Carp
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Oh, I get it. We're allowed to/SUPPOSED TO criticize the tragedies BECAUSE they occurred in Great Britain. Aha. They're Socialist tragedies. I'm moved to tell you a personal horror story. When I was in the hospital eight years ago, the only way I could get ahold of a nurse was by calling them on my cell phone, c/o the switchboard. Too busy working on their PCs behind glass walls. But that wasn't the main thing. I was held there for ten days (total charge of $33K not even counting the specialists called in). And I'd still be there, if someone hadn't made a lucky guess on day nine. WHAT AND WHY? The whole time, the docs had been unable to figure out what they should have known within 1/2 hour, in the ER - namely, that I had a (common) medication side effect which had caused my extreme orthostatic hypotension. And this despite my own family doc being called in as my attending - that is, my former family doc. And I'd had a complete physical with him only two months before my emergency admission - complete with my having brought in a list of all my meds (notably excluding that one new medication - the one that caused THE symptom). My BP at admission and thereafter, was unmeasurable unless I was reclining - somewhat better, sitting. Standing? I passed out instantly, pulse racing. But he wasn't the only one at fault. NONE of the doctors, PAs or nurses had considered this! But if I'd been well enough to grab my 2nd hand nursing handbook on the way to the ER, I'd have known it myself. It wasn't exactly "House" expertise that was called for. And there was much, much more the matter (like Doc. X forbade me to Google my symptoms, but then I found HIM on the hall PC, looking up the rare ailment my brother had found for me online, on a long distance call. It was the ONLY illness that matched my symptoms...Not counting the medicine, that is). Sure, "poor" Dr. X was desperate. But not as much as me! After all, I'd only been able to make it in after spending three days on my floor at home, unable even to crawl to a phone (and having fallen down the stairs several times - as blood tests revealed. Muscle damage.) All the same (something about insurance), he tried to have me discharged without a diagnosis. "But I'll fracture my skull right away - in the shower or before", I protested, terrified. (Their solution, BTW? Don't let her stand up. In the hospital, that is! Ha!) As one nurse replied to my expressed fear (before she could catch herself): "Ah, but that won't be on OUR WATCH!" TEN DAYS, George! This story would certainly have merited a horror news item like the one in your link - if I had perished leaving behind a record. But "luckily" - for me and them - I fell down on the eve of the scheduled discharge. I tried to go across the room to smell the huge bouquet of flowers I'd just received. True, they had forbidden me to climb out of bed alone (infrared sensors were activated around my bed, to check). And they were MAD at me for being "uncooperative" - ha! But, hey, it saved my life. That's the only reason I'm not a casualty of News of the Weird, like those Brit pts. After only five more (obligatory) days in hospital - a specialist (endocrinologist? ) figured out that the medication had caused the admitting symptom. It was, after all, the ONLY new medicine I'd been taking since my physical. My doc mumbled stupified, "somehow...I thought you'd been taking it longer." The ignorance - and arrogance - still BURNS! (Treatment? Discontinue medicine! Whoudda thunk it!) Thank God, I was in the USA where this kind of thing could never have happened! Oh, wait, this WAS in the USA. Edited by Amanda, Oct 7 2012, 07:33 PM.
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[size=5] We should tolerate eccentricity in others, almost to the point of lunacy, provided no one else is harmed.[/size] "Daily Telegraph", London July 27 2005 | |
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| Copper | Oct 7 2012, 05:26 PM Post #14 |
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Shortstop
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Yes, if the government would just hand out health to everyone it would be so much better. |
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The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
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| Copper | Oct 7 2012, 05:28 PM Post #15 |
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Shortstop
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Oh, I get it. We're allowed to/SUPPOSED TO criticize this tragedy BECAUSE it occurred in the USA. |
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The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
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| Piano*Dad | Oct 7 2012, 05:33 PM Post #16 |
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Bull-Carp
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Like Amanda, I too have personal stories to tell. My mother was almost killed multiple times in one hospital stay. She was saved only because she had a physician for a daughter-in-law. How's this for utter incompetence. First, the pharmacy did a switcheroo. They gave her the medicines for a patient who had just had a heart attack ... lots of blood thinners. My mother had leukemia (no platelets) and blood thinners were a complete no no. My wife saw that in the chart on the door and had a conniption (that's a medical term of art). Me, I wouldn't have known the difference. I wonder what happened to the heart patient who got the meds for a leukemia patient??? Next, a nurse came in to my mother's room and was about to give her something in the IV. My mother asked and was told it was Heparin. The nurse was about to hive her a therapeutic dose instead of a flush. My mother told her to take her dose and get lost. Fortunately, my mother was still with it at that point. Pity the poor patient who is not. Next, they sent her into seizures when her blood sugar went to low. Two different nurses both treated her with insulin after consulting with separate doctors. Double dose. The health care trifecta! |
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| Horace | Oct 7 2012, 05:41 PM Post #17 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Just because you're too simple to understand where I'm coming from doesn't mean where I'm coming from is that simple. |
| As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good? | |
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| Copper | Oct 7 2012, 06:09 PM Post #18 |
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Shortstop
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Telling me I'm simple doesn't make where you are coming from any less simple. |
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The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
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| Amanda | Oct 7 2012, 07:49 PM Post #19 |
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Senior Carp
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PD
And this is key. What happens after surgery (when you're alone) is the big question? This kind of thing only used to matter in third-world hospitals, where family members tending to the patient have always been de rigeuer. Now, it's the way of survival in the US too. And if the (lone) patient dies, no one can ever prove their error. "But they aren't allowed to change medical records". Oh, is that so? I've seen doctors do it right before my eyes. If you suspect error, be sure to get to Medical Records before they do. For some reason, many doctors don't think patients can read. Deliberately illegible handwriting is another game. After one near-fatal anesthesia error (which I caught), I found the anesthesiologist's notes wholly unreadable when I got them. Even after studious efforts, I was only able to decipher the following: "...as she suspected." This is especially maddening as ALL subsequent anesthesiologists want to know all the specs about prior problems with anesthesia and I'm unable to report. Even family members are upset as some issues are hereditary and they're also in the dark. He was a very nice guy, too. Otherwise. (As I suspected! ). , |
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[size=5] We should tolerate eccentricity in others, almost to the point of lunacy, provided no one else is harmed.[/size] "Daily Telegraph", London July 27 2005 | |
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| Jolly | Oct 7 2012, 08:04 PM Post #20 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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Then I'm sure you'll enjoy the new EMR. Half the world can hack your private medical data, but nobody will be able to change it! |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| Jolly | Oct 7 2012, 08:05 PM Post #21 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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So, why would you go to that hospital? |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| Piano*Dad | Oct 8 2012, 03:00 AM Post #22 |
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Bull-Carp
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Alas, because it's a rather .... good one. And it was where my spouse worked, which gives all sorts of advantages. Says a lot about the norm, n'est-ce pas? US hospitals make a lot of mistakes. I think I have read about that in some US newspapers recently. The whole point is that a story about systematic medical mistakes in GB, without any context, and in a rather right-wing British newspaper is, well, a news story in a newspaper. It's not evidence of the cosmic evilness of the NHS and the Godly virtue of the American health care system. Glib politicization of such a story is a hallmark of an echo-chamber forum. I pointed that out. That's all. |
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| John D'Oh | Oct 8 2012, 04:19 AM Post #23 |
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MAMIL
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Newspapers have computers and highly trained staff controlling their processes, too. That's why you never see a typographical error in an important story. I think it's fair to say the the NHS is not something that should be held up as a triumph of public health care, and that there are significant and serious problems with it. However, whether this article is fair and balanced is another question entirely. Apart from anything else, I'm pretty sure that most Daily Telegraph senior staff almost certainly have private health insurance.
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| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| Piano*Dad | Oct 8 2012, 05:09 AM Post #24 |
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Bull-Carp
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Alas, I have never heard of a newspaper typo killing anyone ...
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| John D'Oh | Oct 8 2012, 05:19 AM Post #25 |
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MAMIL
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You've never read the Guardian. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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) figured out that the medication had caused the admitting symptom. It was, after all, the ONLY new medicine I'd been taking since my physical. My doc mumbled stupified, "somehow...I thought you'd been taking it longer." The ignorance - and arrogance - still BURNS! (Treatment? Discontinue medicine! Whoudda thunk it!)
This kind of thing only used to matter in third-world hospitals, where family members tending to the patient have always been de rigeuer. Now, it's the way of survival in the US too. And if the (lone) patient dies, no one can ever prove their error.

6:10 AM Jul 11