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It's a penalty; not a tax
Topic Started: Jul 2 2012, 06:43 AM (594 Views)
Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Article:

http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/07/wh-gets-unexpected-backup-romney-camp-says-its-a-penalty-127863.html
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
Axtremus
Jul 2 2012, 06:43 AM
Quote:
 
Prominent Dems including White House chief of staff Jack Lew and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi have repeatedly argued in recent days that the fee for not buying insurance under the health care law is in fact a penalty and not a tax.


So they are agreeing that it's unconstitutional. Good for them.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
I am picturing a John Roberts face palm.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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jon-nyc
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This really speaks to the core absurdity of Romney trying to turn the ACA into a campaign issue.


Santorum was right, he was the worst possible candidate to run against Obama on this issue.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Wait ...

Romney now says it's a tax after all.

:shrug:
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jon-nyc
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Quote:
 
“While I agreed with the dissent, that’s overtaken by the fact that the majority of the Court said it’s a tax and therefore it is a tax. They have spoken. There’s no way around that,”


I had no choice but to flip-flop. My hands were tied.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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jon-nyc
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I wonder if he would say the same thing about legalized abortion.

I mean, the court has spoken, right? There's no way around that, he says.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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George K
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Finally
I don't see him saying that he agrees with the court's statement, only that they have spoken, and for the purposes of legislation, it *is* a tax. In fact, he explicitly says he agrees with the dissent.

One doesn't need to agree with abortion to recognize it as being legal.
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George K
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- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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jon-nyc
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Do you think he would he agree its a woman's right? You know, if the court said it and all.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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George K
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No idea. However, as the Chief Executive, his obligation is to enforce the immigration laws even if he disagrees with it. That's the oath.
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"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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George K
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Finally
CRAWFORD: Have you changed your views on this? I mean, do you now believe that it is a tax, at the federal level, that the Supreme Court has said it is a tax, so it is a tax.

ROMNEY: Well, I said that I agreed with the dissent and the dissent made it very clear that they felt it was unconstitutional, but the dissent lost. It’s in the minority. And so now, the Supreme Court has spoken, and, while I agreed with the dissent, that’s taken over by the fact that the majority of the court said it’s a tax and, therefore, it is a tax. They have spoken. There’s no way around that. You can try and say you wished they had decided a different way, but they didn’t. They concluded it was a tax. That’s what it is and the American people know that President Obama has broken the pledge he made. He said he wouldn’t raise taxes on middle-income Americans. Not only did he raise the $500 billion that was already in the bill, it’s now clear that his mandate as described by the Supreme Court is a tax.

CRAWFORD: But does that mean that the mandate in the state of Massachusetts under your health care law also is a tax? I mean, you raised taxes as governor.

ROMNEY: Actually the chief justice in his opinion made it very clear that at the state level, states have the power to put in place mandates. They don’t need to require them to be called taxes in order for them to be constitutional. And as a result, Massachusetts’ mandate was a mandate, was a penalty, was described that way by the legislature and by me, and so it stays as it was.

CRAWFORD: So at the state level because of … you’re saying the Supreme Court says that’s different, that the federal government – the powers are different between the states and the federal government? Does that make sense to you?

ROMNEY: Just take a read of the opinion. The chief justice said that states have what’s known as police power, and states can implement penalties and mandates and so forth under their constitutions, which is what Massachusetts did. But the federal government does not have those powers, and therefore for the Supreme Court to reach the conclusion it did – that the law was constitutional – they had to find it was a tax, and they did. And therefore Obamacare’s a tax. Like it or not, it’s a tax.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
This has got to be the most ridiculous attempt at gotcha journalism that I've ever seen. White House calls it a penalty and not a tax, Pelosi calls it a penalty and not a tax, and Romney gets called to the carpet because one of his staff said the same damn thing.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
Actually this is one of the most hilarious aspects of the spectacle that is the GOP trying to regain the whitehouse. The idea that Romney can somehow campaign against a health care system that is largely his own creation is mind bogglingly funny. Santorum got it right.

I expect more hilarity to ensue on this topic in the coming months.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
And hence my opinion of the strategic blunder the GOP is making here.

Revise ACA as one can when you get the chance, but until the second week of November it's the economy, the economy, the economy.
Edited by Mikhailoh, Jul 4 2012, 03:33 PM.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Mark
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HOLY CARP!!!
So!

What's to stop anyone from just paying the "penalty/tax" and not buying insurance? It is way cheaper than any insurance premium

They will still treat them. Correct?

And they won't get a bill. Correct?

WTF?

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Copper
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Shortstop
Mark
Jul 4 2012, 05:45 PM
So!

What's to stop anyone everyone from just paying the "penalty/tax" and not buying insurance? It is way cheaper than any insurance premium

They will still treat them. Correct?

And they won't get a bill. Correct?

WTF?



:)
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
Romney should feel no shame supporting a system established at the state level but not supporting the same thing established at the federal level. Why is that so difficult to comprehend?
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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Larry
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Quote:
 
Why is that so difficult to comprehend?


Because it isn't about comprehension, it's about being a yellow dog democrat who will defend anything democrat.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
JBryan
Jul 4 2012, 06:14 PM
Romney should feel no shame supporting a system established at the state level but not supporting the same thing established at the federal level. Why is that so difficult to comprehend?
It's a bi-partisan challenge.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
JBryan
Jul 4 2012, 06:14 PM
Romney should feel no shame supporting a system established at the state level but not supporting the same thing established at the federal level. Why is that so difficult to comprehend?
It is not at all difficult to understand. The federal government was never meant to have the same powers or responsibilities as the states.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
JBryan
Jul 4 2012, 06:14 PM
Romney should feel no shame supporting a system established at the state level but not supporting the same thing established at the federal level. Why is that so difficult to comprehend?
Oh, he could run against it on the narrow (but deep) Federalist point with his head held high, but I doubt that's what he'll do. He'll try to attack its merits as a health care system while defending (or, more likely, ignoring) MA. e.g., Obama's penalty is a tax, MA's penalty is not a tax. Obama's is government run healthcare, while MA's won't be characterized that way, etc.


Put it this way - if you're a hair, stay away from Romney when he's discussing health care else you'll likely find yourself split.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
WSJ excoriates team Romney.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304141204577506652734793044.html?mod=rss_opinion_main

In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
JBryan
Jul 4 2012, 06:14 PM
Romney should feel no shame supporting a system established at the state level but not supporting the same thing established at the federal level. Why is that so difficult to comprehend?
I very much doubt that Mitt Romney feels shame about the issue, or any issue he supports or has supported or will support. To mis-quote Tony Blair 'we don't do shame'.

He's reversed his opinions on abortion based on whether he's trying to get elected in Massachusetts or the US as a whole, a matter which is normally considered much more fundamental to one's core values, so why should healthcare give him pause?
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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