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Most Dangerous Cars in America
Topic Started: Jun 11 2012, 06:27 AM (711 Views)
ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
kenny
Jun 12 2012, 11:13 AM
Klaus
Jun 12 2012, 11:09 AM
Only Americans can turn a car safety issue into an armsweight race. :rolleyes:
They laws of physics don't apply in Germany?
it's a metric thing, Kenny.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
ivorythumper
Jun 12 2012, 11:13 AM
kenny
Jun 12 2012, 11:13 AM
Klaus
Jun 12 2012, 11:09 AM
Only Americans can turn a car safety issue into an armsweight race. :rolleyes:
They laws of physics don't apply in Germany?
it's a metric thing, Kenny.
Hahaha!
Of course! :lol2:

Then again, maybe it's a beer thing. :cheers:
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Jeremy Clarkson reviews the Ford F150

He's not very impressed :lol:
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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George K
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Finally
John D'Oh
Jun 12 2012, 11:20 AM
"Most people who go for a walk in the American countryside are eaten by a bear, so they need a gun rack."

It's true - RLY.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
kenny
Jun 12 2012, 11:13 AM
Klaus
Jun 12 2012, 11:09 AM
Only Americans can turn a car safety issue into an armsweight race. :rolleyes:
They laws of physics don't apply in Germany?
Actually, over here the laws of logic trump the laws of physics.

Saying that, ceteris paribus, heavier cars are safer is of course only one side of the story. The truth is that
buying a heavier car means that one increases ones own safety at the cost of somebody else's safety. It is rather selfish and antisocial. It everybody would follow this logic, it would mean that everybody would soon drive tanks, or that those who can afford the heavy cars will kill the poorer ones who can only afford more lightweight cars.

It's a typical case of the prisoner's dilemma: A situation where everybody will be in a worse situation (in this case: less safe) if each individual maximizes his personal utility (in this case: safety).
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Klaus
Jun 12 2012, 11:31 AM
... buying a heavier car means that one increases ones own safety at the cost of somebody else's safety. It is rather selfish and antisocial.
You, my dear friend, are a liberal.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
George K
Jun 12 2012, 11:29 AM
John D'Oh
Jun 12 2012, 11:20 AM
"Most people who go for a walk in the American countryside are eaten by a bear, so they need a gun rack."

It's true - RLY.
"If this were America, it would be full of people doing... whatever it is they do. Incest, mostly."
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
kenny
Jun 12 2012, 11:34 AM
Klaus
Jun 12 2012, 11:31 AM
... buying a heavier car means that one increases ones own safety at the cost of somebody else's safety. It is rather selfish and antisocial.
You, my dear friend, are a liberal.
Is that an insult? :help:
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
John D'Oh
Jun 12 2012, 11:38 AM
George K
Jun 12 2012, 11:29 AM
John D'Oh
Jun 12 2012, 11:20 AM
"Most people who go for a walk in the American countryside are eaten by a bear, so they need a gun rack."

It's true - RLY.
"If this were America, it would be full of people doing... whatever it is they do. Incest, mostly."
You Europeans would never understand being pious and proud of overpriced sh!tty products.

You better behave though.
We have more nuckleer bombs than you have.

Posted Image
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Klaus
Jun 12 2012, 11:46 AM
kenny
Jun 12 2012, 11:34 AM
Klaus
Jun 12 2012, 11:31 AM
... buying a heavier car means that one increases ones own safety at the cost of somebody else's safety. It is rather selfish and antisocial.
You, my dear friend, are a liberal.
Is that an insult? :help:
Only if it came from Larry. :P
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Klaus
Jun 12 2012, 11:46 AM
kenny
Jun 12 2012, 11:34 AM
Klaus
Jun 12 2012, 11:31 AM
... buying a heavier car means that one increases ones own safety at the cost of somebody else's safety. It is rather selfish and antisocial.
You, my dear friend, are a liberal.
Is that an insult? :help:
It might be an invitation to a glass of chardonnay and a hot oil massage. :whome:
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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George K
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Finally
kenny
Jun 12 2012, 11:49 AM
You better behave though.
We have more nuckleer bombs than you have.

Posted Image
And our Peace-Prize-Winning President has a "Kill List" on his desk. :thumb:
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
Quote:
 
They kiss at a combined speed of 120 mph.

Actually, they don't...

The differential in mass changes things a bit - but if you had two 1-ton vehicles crash head on at 60, you'd have the equivalent of a 1-ton vehicle hitting a brick wall at .... 60, not 120.
In your scenario, it's a 2-ton vehicle and a 1-ton vehicle. The 1-ton vehicle suffers a bit here, as the more massive 2-ton vehicle imparts more energy into it - but the speeds don't combine - the energy doesn't "double" that way.
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
KlavierBauer
Jun 12 2012, 12:04 PM
The differential in mass changes things a bit - but if you had two 1-ton vehicles crash head on at 60, you'd have the equivalent of a 1-ton vehicle hitting a brick wall at .... 60, not 120.
How do you figure that one out? Isn't the relative speed of 1 car with respect to the other 120?
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Kincaid
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HOLY CARP!!!
If both vehicles are the same weight and construction, what if you crash one car going 120 mph into one that is stopped?
Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006.
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
Kincaid:
If you crash one at 120 into one that is stopped, the one that is stopped will move, and some of the energy will be transferred into motion instead of into car crumpling. Conservation of Momentum comes into play, which is why a brick wall is a better analogy.

John: No - not at all. If it doubled the speed, it would quadruple the energy (the force being the square of the velocity). What it does double, is the kinetic energy, which is now spread into twice as much mass, resulting in the amount of force (f) acting on the car being the same whether it's two cars going 60mph head on, or one going 60mph into a brick wall.
This is a great demonstration of Newton's 3rd law.
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
I'm not sure I buy that, but I'm too lazy to sit down and think about it. Presumably by 'brick wall' you mean an object of infinite mass that is immovable? A real brick wall will disintegrate if hit by a car at 60mph.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
This should be approached as a momentum problem, not energy. I am too far gone to do the math but KB is wrong.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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George K
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Finally
Momentum = Mass x Velocity
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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KlavierBauer
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
John: Sorry - you're right. A concrete wall however, will not.
Yes, some amount of energy is lost into the wall, but assuming its mass is significantly more than a car, it can be equivalent to "unyielding" for purposes of real-world implications of a collision like this.

Accounting for momentum, the immovable wall's force will be the same against the car hitting it at 60mph (as per Newton's third law), as another car hitting the car head on at 60mph. If you double the speed of the single car into the wall, the momentum changes substantially, as does the energy.

"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
JBryan:
yes, it is a momentum problem.
As I was just typing to John - a car hitting an object of significantly more mass (unyielding) at 60mph will have the wall interacting with it at the same force, with a delta-v of 60, in nearly 0 time.
Replacing the wall with another car of the same mass and momentum exerts the same force on the car as the immovable wall - thus the same result. Account for the momentum of a car going 120, and you have a very different amount of kinetic energy, and a delta-v of 120. Very different situation for the occupant, and very different amounts of damage to the car (all things being equal).

To be fair - Kenny's original assertion had another car being double the mass of the first - which isn't the situation I'm explaining here.

Mythbusters did a practical experiment of this a couple years back. Even though their explanation at the end of the show wasn't quite correct, the experiment proved the point and the math very well, a car into a wall (or tree, or whatever that is unyielding) at v is equal to two cars hitting head on at v, rather than two cars hitting head on at v/2. And again - this assumed m is equivalent between the two.
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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