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Estonian President rips Paul Krugman a new @sshole...
Topic Started: Jun 6 2012, 11:38 PM (499 Views)
George K
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Finally
According to your article, Estonia has a flat income tax, which, if recovery continues, is planned to decrease in 2015.

Many in the GOP and the Tea Party (whatever that is) are advocates of a flat tax.

Are you?
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
George K
Jun 13 2012, 07:23 PM
Many in the GOP and the Tea Party (whatever that is) are advocates of a flat tax.

Are you?
I used to like the flat tax idea. Not any more.

The reason is simple:

$10, 10% of $100, would mean a lot for a guy who makes $100. The difference may be between letting his kids starve or not letting his kids starve, between getting healthcare of not getting healthcare.

$100K $1 Million, 10% of $10 Million, would mean a lot less for a guy who makes $10 Million. The difference may be buying one fewer sports car for his kids or taking a slightly less fewer luxurious family vacations.

Same 10% flat rate, completely different impacts on different income levels.

Are you an advocate of flat tax? Why or why not?

[EDITED to correct a math error as pointed out by KB below.]
Edited by Axtremus, Jun 13 2012, 09:13 PM.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Axtremus
Jun 13 2012, 07:15 PM
Look at the graph here:

http://politicalcalculations.blogspot.com/2012/06/austerity-done-right-part-2.html

All the way up to 2008 (until the financial crisis hit), Estonia consistently increased government spending (i.e., no austerity policy in effect).

If you want to talk about the efficacy of austerity policies, all that growth in Estonia prior to 2008 is irrelevant because Estonia did not adopt austerity policies before then.

That's another reason why P*D is right to focus only on shorter term, more recent data (because longer term, older data are results prior to the adoption of austerity policies).

Another thing to note: Estonia, as it adopts austerity measures, do not only cut government spending, but also increased tax rates. That tax increase is a significant part of the Estonia policies that the GOP and Tea Party seem to loath to acknowledge, much less adopt for the US.
What do you mean that they had no austerity policy before? It seems from the chart you posted that the Estonian governmental budget basically tracked the GDP since at least 2000. For governments, it is austerity to spend money you don't have. :lol2:

Posted Image

What would a similar US or Greek chart look like?

The dogma lives loudly within me.
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
Ax - since when is 100k 10% of 10MM?
That would be $1MM - which to someone with $10MM would be a heck of a lot of money.
You may argue that they don't need all of it - but I've known enough millionaires in my time to know that $1,000,000 (10% of $10,000,000) isn't insignificant, in the same way that $10 isn't insignificant to someone with $100. Both feel a very real sense of how much they're actually paying.
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Axtremus
Jun 13 2012, 07:42 PM
George K
Jun 13 2012, 07:23 PM
Many in the GOP and the Tea Party (whatever that is) are advocates of a flat tax.

Are you?
I used to like the flat tax idea. Not any more.

The reason is simple:

$10, 10% of $100, would mean a lot for a guy who makes $100. The difference may be between letting his kids starve or not letting his kids starve, between getting healthcare of not getting healthcare.

$100K, 10% of $10 Million, would mean a lot less for a guy who makes $10 Million. The difference may be buying one fewer sports car for his kids or taking a slightly less luxurious family vacation.

Same 10% flat rate, completely different impacts on different income levels.

Are you an advocate of flat tax? Why or why not?
I am an advocate of removing the FICA cap, and even accelerating it for higher incomes.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
KlavierBauer
Jun 13 2012, 09:03 PM
Ax - since when is 100k 10% of 10MM?
That would be $1MM - which to someone with $10MM would be a heck of a lot of money.
You may argue that they don't need all of it - but I've known enough millionaires in my time to know that $1,000,000 (10% of $10,000,000) isn't insignificant, in the same way that $10 isn't insignificant to someone with $100. Both feel a very real sense of how much they're actually paying.
Sure the $ten-millionaires feel it, but they will still fare a lot better after paying their 10% than after the $100-aires pay their 10%.

I hold the opinion that acquiring fewer sports cars or taking fewer luxurious family vacations is quite obviously less significant than letting your kids starve or getting by without healthcare. You seems to disagree. Oh well. :shrug:
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
I seem to disagree that starving children are less significant than a sports car?
I don't remember typing that - but I guess I must've.

Not many people make $10MM per annum, but I'm betting that even fewer make $100 per annum.

Care to cite either the number of people whose children will starve if they have a flat tax, and don't qualify for any of the safety nets that would be enacted?
After clearing that hurdle, can you please cite where I said anything about comparing any life with any object?
I think I've spoken quite clearly historically about my respect for life - even poor ones.
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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