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Estonian President rips Paul Krugman a new @sshole...
Topic Started: Jun 6 2012, 11:38 PM (498 Views)
ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
on Twitter. :lol2: :lol2:
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Mikhailoh
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:lol2:
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
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"Guess a Nobel in trade means you can pontificate on fiscal matters & declare my country a "wasteland". Must be a Princeton vs Columbia thing."


What did five fingers say to the face?


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I cite irreconcilable differences.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
I have to say, protesting that you're being patronised as being a dodgy little country by having your President posting insults on Twitter seems vaguely reminiscent of responding to charges of religious extremism by beheading people. :lol:
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
John D'Oh
Jun 7 2012, 05:24 AM
I have to say, protesting that you're being patronised as being a dodgy little country by having your President posting insults on Twitter seems vaguely reminiscent of responding to charges of religious extremism by beheading people. :lol:
You're thinking a hand-written letter complete with wax presidential seal would be somehow less, uh, Transylvanian? I doubt it.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Mark
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HOLY CARP!!!
I like their pianos.

:leaving:
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Piano*Dad
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Bull-Carp
I'm guessing this is the Krugman blog post that has the Estonian president so hot and bothered.

Estonian Rhapsody

If so, words like "smug," "overbearing," and "patronizing" more aptly describe president Ilves than Krugman. Estonia's real GDP fell by 20% between the December 2007 peak and the 2009 trough. Since then it has clawed back roughly half of that loss. When this is the poster child of austerity, that's a fine example of bogus ideological thinking.

If I were an Estonian, I would find my president a complete embarrassment. Hmmmm, maybe Sacha Baron Cohen needs to pay a visit to Estonia. At least he's Talinn-ted.

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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Estonia GDP:

Posted Image
Source: the "Estonia Rhapsody" blog that Piano*Dad linked to above.

Compare to other countries:

Posted Image
Source: http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2012/04/27/978191/us-gdp-slacking-off-but-lets-not-get-too-dramatic/
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George K
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Finally
Piano*Dad
Jun 7 2012, 06:58 AM
Sacha Baron Cohen needs to pay a visit to Estonia. At least he's Talinn-ted.

And Kazakhstan is just e stone's throw away.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

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Kincaid
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HOLY CARP!!!
From those graphs it appears Estonia is doing about as good as Great Britain and better than Italy?
Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006.
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John D'Oh
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Kincaid
Jun 7 2012, 08:40 AM
From those graphs it appears Estonia is doing about as good as Great Britain
Except that David Cameron only Tweets obscenities under an alias.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Piano*Dad
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Kincaid
Jun 7 2012, 08:40 AM
From those graphs it appears Estonia is doing about as good as Great Britain and better than Italy?
Only if you think a 20% decrease in GDP (Estonia) is the same as a 5% decrease in GDP (most of the others). When your economy collapses by Great Depression amounts, the low base allows for seemingly huge percentage growth that still doesn't move you nearly as much back to where you started.
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ivorythumper
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Piano*Dad
Jun 7 2012, 06:58 AM
I'm guessing this is the Krugman blog post that has the Estonian president so hot and bothered.

Estonian Rhapsody

If so, words like "smug," "overbearing," and "patronizing" more aptly describe president Ilves than Krugman. Estonia's real GDP fell by 20% between the December 2007 peak and the 2009 trough. Since then it has clawed back roughly half of that loss. When this is the poster child of austerity, that's a fine example of bogus ideological thinking.

If I were an Estonian, I would find my president a complete embarrassment. Hmmmm, maybe Sacha Baron Cohen needs to pay a visit to Estonia. At least he's Talinn-ted.

Do you think Krugman might be cherrypicking, P*D?

Posted Image

How the the other national graphs compare 1996 to the present?
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Estonia is *doing* what the rest of the world doesn't have the guts to do, and what the Left says won't work - and it's working.

The US needs for two things to happen: 1. Get rid of the loser in the White House, and 2. start applying the principles that Estonia has applied.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Wouldn't the GDP comparison graph above indicate that the US is doing quite a bit better than Estonia?
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Graphs don't mean much to me. Results are what I look at.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
The results as portrayed in the graphs, or some other completely different results?

Personally, I have absolutely no idea how well Estonia is doing, except that the graphs seem to indicate not particularly well. I do know I don't want to live there very much.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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JBryan
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I hear it gets cold there.
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Piano*Dad
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Bull-Carp
Somebody else thinks Krugman pretty much got things right....

Why Paul Krugman is Right
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Piano*Dad
Jun 13 2012, 09:43 AM
Somebody else thinks Krugman pretty much got things right....

Why Paul Krugman is Right
Except that Latvia is not Estonia. :lol2:

So what do you think of the contention in post #13 that Krugman was cherrypicking with his short graph? Showing 2007-2010 as if that explained anything seems tendentious.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Piano*Dad
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Bull-Carp
K's whole argument is about austerity as a crisis-fighting tool. There is really no need for a long time series unless you are evaluating long-run issues, which crisis response is not. This is more an issue of cross-section variation (among countries) than about time-series.

Indeed, the writer of this article is using another Baltic example (maybe he too is a Baltic gas passer ... :whome: ), but he notes that difference.
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George K
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Finally
:wave2:
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Piano*Dad
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Bull-Carp
I thought that would get your attention.... :lol2:
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Piano*Dad
Jun 13 2012, 03:53 PM
K's whole argument is about austerity as a crisis-fighting tool. There is really no need for a long time series unless you are evaluating long-run issues, which crisis response is not. This is more an issue of cross-section variation (among countries) than about time-series.

Indeed, the writer of this article is using another Baltic example (maybe he too is a Baltic gas passer ... :whome: ), but he notes that difference.
Well, I see your point, but it seems that if there were other factors that led to the dip in the Krugman graphs (and the Latvian example) then it is hardly much of a criticism against Estonian policy. If it was a hiccup and they recovered and kept economic progress, then what is Krugman's basis for attack? It seems the graph was intended to tell a particular version of a story, not the whole story.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Look at the graph here:

http://politicalcalculations.blogspot.com/2012/06/austerity-done-right-part-2.html

All the way up to 2008 (until the financial crisis hit), Estonia consistently increased government spending (i.e., no austerity policy in effect).

If you want to talk about the efficacy of austerity policies, all that growth in Estonia prior to 2008 is irrelevant because Estonia did not adopt austerity policies before then.

That's another reason why P*D is right to focus only on shorter term, more recent data (because longer term, older data are results prior to the adoption of austerity policies).

Another thing to note: Estonia, as it adopts austerity measures, do not only cut government spending, but also increased tax rates. That tax increase is a significant part of the Estonia policies that the GOP and Tea Party seem to loath to acknowledge, much less adopt for the US.
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