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Obama shuts down Vietnam Memorial access for Memorial Day
Topic Started: May 28 2012, 11:17 PM (1,439 Views)
John D'Oh
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Agent of Disinformation
In other words, what do you bloody expect, he's a politician?
"We'll cross that bridge when we come to it!" ~ Edward M. Kennedy
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
It's one thing to close down the White House tours for a day or so. It's another thing entirely to have the unmitigated gall to think you are so f*cking important that you pick THE DAY of the year that families of those whose names are on that wall have traveled in many cases great distances to visit it, to shut it down so you can be seen giving a speech talking about these heroes in order to draw attention to yourself.

The asshat could have given his speech the day before, but I suppose that might have interrupted his f*cking golf game.


Anyone still defending this asshole is nuts.

Edited by Larry, May 29 2012, 10:24 AM.
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George K
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11/4/0
The announcement that Obama was going to speak at the Vietnam memorial was made 11 days before the speech.

http://www.stripes.com/blogs/the-ruptured-duck/the-ruptured-duck-1.160117/obama-to-speak-at-vietnam-wall-on-memorial-day-1.177485

Quote:
 
During the Medal of Honor ceremony for Spc. Leslie Sabo on Wednesday, President Barack Obama announced he’ll speak at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial on Memorial Day, as part of the Defense Department’s commemoration of the 50th anniversary of that war.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
Mik, 6/14/08


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Copper
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HOLY CARP!!!
Dewey
May 29 2012, 09:46 AM

None of this excuses Obama's theatrics. It's just to point out that this recent instance of it isn't evidence that he's any more crass or uncaring as any other politician who's acted similarly.

Oh, you want evidence.

This email just came from my friends at the Whitehouse.

Quote:
 

Fifty years after Vietnam

In his speech at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in Washington D.C., President Obama did more than just mark Memorial Day; he began the 50th commemoration of that conflict and those who served in one of America's longest wars.

Fifty years ago, American forces stepped up operations in Vietnam. During the conflict, more than three million Americans served in the Vietnam war, and more than 58,000 American patriots gave their lives. And when U.S. forces returned home, too many never received the hero's welcome they deserved.

Yesterday, President Obama told their story as it should have been told all along -- a story of patriotism, honor, and courage. Here's a short video to mark this important moment that you can share to help set the record straight and honor the service of Americans who fought in Vietnam:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/vietnam-war-50th



I am a lib
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
John D'Oh
May 29 2012, 09:55 AM
In other words, what do you bloody expect, he's a politician?
Yeah, kinda that. ^_^ Not particularly more egregious in his assholery than any other one, as far as I can see.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
Copper
May 29 2012, 11:52 AM
Dewey
May 29 2012, 09:46 AM

None of this excuses Obama's theatrics. It's just to point out that this recent instance of it isn't evidence that he's any more crass or uncaring as any other politician who's acted similarly.

Oh, you want evidence.

This email just came from my friends at the Whitehouse.

Quote:
 

Fifty years after Vietnam

In his speech at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in Washington D.C., President Obama did more than just mark Memorial Day; he began the 50th commemoration of that conflict and those who served in one of America's longest wars.

Fifty years ago, American forces stepped up operations in Vietnam. During the conflict, more than three million Americans served in the Vietnam war, and more than 58,000 American patriots gave their lives. And when U.S. forces returned home, too many never received the hero's welcome they deserved.

Yesterday, President Obama told their story as it should have been told all along -- a story of patriotism, honor, and courage. Here's a short video to mark this important moment that you can share to help set the record straight and honor the service of Americans who fought in Vietnam:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/vietnam-war-50th



So Copper, you're upset about Obama's words because, I assume... he agrees with you, and what he said was good and fitting? :blink: Or, that his political office released a video clip of him saying complimentary and patriotic things to the veterans? Surely, no other Democrat or Republican has sunk to that level before...

Obama isn't the first, and won't be the last, to make speeches on Memorial Day. It's part of a President's job to say exactly the kind of things that he said to the Vietnam vets in the video clip. He isn't the first politician, liberal or conservative, to try to make political hay out of his support for veterans. Having the memorial closed for a few hours to make a speech wasn't necessary, but it wasn't the end of the world, either, and people trying to make a bigger deal out of it than it was are only showing their predetermined dislike for the man and their predetermined response to nearly anything he might do. And in saying so, let me repeat: I don't like him, I didn't vote for him, and I oppose most of his policies. But really, talk about making a mountain out of a molehill. :rolleyes: Honestly, making a big deal out of stuff like this only serves to delegitimize the legitimate criticism that could be made against him, and just makes his critics look like a bunch of nitwits.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011
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jon-nyc
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Holy ****ing ****
Dewey
May 29 2012, 12:10 PM
Honestly, making a big deal out of stuff like this only serves to delegitimize the legitimate criticism that could be made against him, and just makes his critics look like a bunch of nitwits.
Indeed.
I'm low-info, and I vote.
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The 89th Key
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I was downtown on Sunday watching Rolling Thunder come through, and was at Arlington National Cemetery earlier that morning. An INCREDIBLE number of friends and family members come into DC, specifically to the National Cemetery and Memorials, over Memorial Day weekend to "visit" their loved ones. Regardless of the politician, it's extremely rude and tone deaf to not realize the impact of how many people you're going to inconvenience (and offend) with such plans for a speech.
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Copper
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HOLY CARP!!!
Dewey
May 29 2012, 12:10 PM

So Copper, you're upset about Obama's words because, I assume... he agrees with you, and what he said was good and fitting?
Huh?

I'm not upset. I am simply pointing out the cheap nature of this man.

I know you like the "Obama isn't the first" defense, but that doesn't excuse it.

If he simply said the typical patriotic Memorial Day things that you mentioned nobody would have noticed.

There are two things I don't like and both are certainly worthy of mention.

1. He kept visitors out for seven hours on a day that is set aside for visitors to visit.
This is really a legitimate gripe, this tradition is nationwide at national cemeteries and monuments.
Many people travel long distances on this holiday to be at the wall. Many of them were turned away for the sake of the photo op.

2. He is actually claiming he is the first to tell their story.
That is cheap.
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
Quote:
 
I know you like the "Obama isn't the first" defense, but that doesn't excuse it.


If you've been reading what I've written, you know that I'm not excusing it; to the contrary, I criticized it. The difference between the two of us seems to be that you think it's in some way unique to him, or that he's being more exploitative than other politicians. I don't. I dislike it when all of them do it, and I don't see Obama as being any worse at it than anyone else. To repeat: I'm not excusing his actions; I'm criticizing all politicians who do so.

Quote:
 
2. He is actually claiming he is the first to tell their story.


Really? I don't see that anywhere in the email or in the video. As far as this:

Quote:
 
Yesterday, President Obama told their story as it should have been told all along.


That is not claiming that he is the first to do so; only that some have being saying otherwise. There's a difference.

As I've said, we Obama critics should save our powder and our credibility for battles that are legitimate and significant. This isn't either, and acting like is was only makes our legitimate arguments less likely to be listened to.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011
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Dave Spelvin
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Fulla-Carp
ivorythumper
May 29 2012, 09:22 AM
Dave Spelvin
May 29 2012, 08:11 AM
Knees jerking wildly here. Anyone care to know what he actually said?

Quote:
 
The president paid special tribute to Vietnam veterans, noting that many “came home and were sometimes denigrated when you should have been celebrated. It was a national shame, a disgrace that should have never happened.” Yet, “even though some Americans turned their backs on you, you never turned your back on America,” Obama said.


Anyone here have a problem with that?

Here's the Washington Post with more.
So for you, words speak louder than actions, huh? For many of us, its the other way around.

Actions speak very loudly (killing bin Laden, ending several wars started by his predecessor, among many other things that he has accomplished or facilitated) but symbolism is important. His speech was pitch perfect and the sentiments agreeable to practically everyone, which is of course why the Obama haters in this thread can only say he's a narcissist or whatever y'all are calling him this week and have nothing to say about the speech. HE'S THE PRESIDENT, GET IT? This is what he is supposed to do: make speeches. If the area was cordoned off for 7 hours, and I've yet to see anything other than right wing propaganda stating this as fact, it's because there are a lot of people who would kill our president if they had half a chance. Security takes time, sort of like standing on line to board a plane.
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Quote:
 
Actions speak very loudly (killing bin Laden, ending several wars started by his predecessor, among many other things that he has accomplished or facilitated)


1. Obama didn't kill bin laden, nor did he facilitate it. All he did was take credit for it.

2. Ending "several" wars????? I'm aware of him *starting* one in Libya, and I'm aware of him sitting on his hands as we speak while Syria's ruler engages in wholesale slaughter of innocent women and children, and I'm aware of him royally f*cking up the Afghanistan effort - such a bone headed move that we'll be paying for that one in blood - but I'm not aware of the moron ending even ONE war, much less "several".


Quote:
 
His speech was pitch perfect and the sentiments agreeable to practically everyone, which is of course why the Obama haters in this thread can only say he's a narcissist or whatever y'all are calling him this week and have nothing to say about the speech.


Dave, you just aren't getting it, guy. Sure, the words in the speech were nice. He didn't write them, hell, he doesn't even believe them. But it isn't the speech he gave that's the issue. The issue is that a man who has *repeatedly* refused to salute the flag, a man who has no use whatsoever for the Constitution, a man who despises the military, this feckless piece of sh!t you call a president dared to stand on what is to patriots of this nation sacred ground and inconvenience the families of those men and women who died defending this nation.

He has no right to be in the same vicinity with *any* soldier, living or dead - I don't give a rat's ass what office he holds.

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Vagitarian: Old Baltic word for......"Injun"
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John D'Oh
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Agent of Disinformation
Je deteste la politique parce qu'il est ennuyeux.
"We'll cross that bridge when we come to it!" ~ Edward M. Kennedy
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
He's more than annoying, he's disgusting.

Vegetarian: Old Indian word for.... "Bad hunter"
Vagitarian: Old Baltic word for......"Injun"
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John D'Oh
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Agent of Disinformation
:lol:
"We'll cross that bridge when we come to it!" ~ Edward M. Kennedy
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Dave Spelvin
May 29 2012, 12:49 PM
If the area was cordoned off for 7 hours, and I've yet to see anything other than right wing propaganda stating this as fact,
Are you saying that it really didn't happen, or since it was only reported by actual eye witnesses and not the MSM there is no reason to believe it?
Quote:
 
it's because there are a lot of people who would kill our president if they had half a chance. Security takes time, sort of like standing on line to board a plane.
Who do you know who would kill the President? You should report them if you do.

Or is that only some completely unsubstantiated fabrication of your own lurid imagination to demonize people with whom you disagree politically?
Dyslexics are teople poo.
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John D'Oh
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ivorythumper
May 29 2012, 03:25 PM
Who do you know who would kill the President? You should report them if you do.

Or is that only some completely unsubstantiated fabrication of your own lurid imagination to demonize people with whom you disagree politically?
I think you're on pretty rocky ground with that line of reasoning. If someone was willing to have a go at offing Gerald Ford, it's pretty clear that nobody is safe.
"We'll cross that bridge when we come to it!" ~ Edward M. Kennedy
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Copper
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HOLY CARP!!!
ivorythumper
May 29 2012, 03:25 PM

Who do you know who would kill the President? You should report them if you do.

Or is that only some completely unsubstantiated fabrication of your own lurid imagination to demonize people with whom you disagree politically?

Unfortunately that kind of imaginative thinking pulls a lot of weight in DC these days.
I am a lib
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John D'Oh
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Agent of Disinformation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_presidential_assassination_attempts_and_plots

I'm pretty sure that with his awesomeness on display for all to see, Obama is the first US President that nobody wants to kill.
"We'll cross that bridge when we come to it!" ~ Edward M. Kennedy
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Mikhailoh
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........
Not to mention the order of succession.
"Happiness equals reality minus expectations." - Tom Magliozzi

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Aqua Letifer
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Dave Spelvin
May 29 2012, 12:49 PM
Actions speak very loudly (killing bin Laden, ending several wars started by his predecessor, among many other things that he has accomplished or facilitated) but symbolism is important. His speech was pitch perfect and the sentiments agreeable to practically everyone, which is of course why the Obama haters in this thread can only say he's a narcissist or whatever y'all are calling him this week and have nothing to say about the speech. HE'S THE PRESIDENT, GET IT? This is what he is supposed to do: make speeches. If the area was cordoned off for 7 hours, and I've yet to see anything other than right wing propaganda stating this as fact, it's because there are a lot of people who would kill our president if they had half a chance. Security takes time, sort of like standing on line to board a plane.
I hope you'll forgive my ponting out to you I'm no conservative sympathizer. I find both political parties full of **** if you really want to know the truth.

Anyway, regarding your first point: the death of Osama Bin Laden has nothing at all to do with families recognizing the sacrifices their loved ones have made in years' past.

Regarding the second, yes I'm ignoring the speech. I don't give a crap about the speech because it has nothing at all to do with families recognizing the sacrifices their loved ones have made in years' past. The day is set aside to recognize those sacrifices through customs and observances that shouldn't have to be defended. If you visit the Arlington Cemetery, you should be able to visit grave sites without being bothered. If you visit the WW II memorial, you should be able to walk around the pillars and its Freedom Wall without being hassled by Secret Service. And when you visit the Vietnam Memorial, you're supposed to be able to interact with the wall. That's what you're supposed to do at each of those places.

Here's what else you're missing about the Vietnam Memorial in particular: by design it's unfavorable to grandstanding. Speeches don't belong there, news events don't belong there. It's an elegant design; the memorial has no bells and whistles attached, no pretty gimmicks, no spectacular fountains. It's just a list of the names. It should be obvious how one should conduct one's self when visiting, I don't care if you're the President of the United States of America or Acme Foods. The speech was inappropriate.
Better pass boldly into that other world, in the full glory of some passion, than fade and wither dismally with age.
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Mikhailoh
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........
Quote:
 
ending several wars started by his predecessor


It is difficult to describe the wars as having ended when we are still regularly lobbing missiles at selected targets who are in fact not shooting at us. Less boots on the ground - for the moment - does not equal peace.
"Happiness equals reality minus expectations." - Tom Magliozzi

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