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Woman denied Communion because she's a lesbian
Topic Started: Mar 1 2012, 08:38 AM (4,043 Views)
Copper
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Shortstop
Axtremus
Mar 5 2012, 04:56 PM
Luke's Dad
Mar 5 2012, 04:54 PM
Can we all agree that a woman that is trying to partake in communion not for the sake of communion but because she is trying to agitate the cleric should be denied?
Why? Is "trying to agitate the priest" a more sinful sin than the other sins? :blink:

She caused this thread.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Dewey
Mar 5 2012, 02:51 PM
Good Lord, IT. I'm sitting here trying to not argue, and just say that you believe one thing, and I believe the opposite, and we can just walk away from the issue and avoid arguing. But you seem to be hell bent on arguing about something, anything, so now you want to argue about whether or not we're arguing. It's moronic. Go argue with yourself; you're undoubtedly the only person in your mind up for the challenge anyway. I've got more important things to do.
No Dewey -- you evidently are hell bent on arguing, or you would not make caricatures of my views and then assert your own -- all the while claiming you don't want an argument. You obviously don't have anything better to do or you would not do what you've been doing all along.

You want to quarrel, I want a discussion. If you don't want a discussion, then just walk away and don't take cheap shots when exiting.

The dogma lives loudly within me.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Luke's Dad
Mar 5 2012, 04:54 PM
Can we all agree that a woman that is trying to partake in communion not for the sake of communion but because she is trying to agitate the cleric should be denied?
Evidently not.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Well I'm a lesbian, I don't care what the rest of you do.....
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Larry's got the problem licked.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
I pulled the rug right out from under their argument, huh......
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
NOMinally, yes.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Snatched it right out....
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Luke's Dad
Mar 5 2012, 04:54 PM
Can we all agree that a woman that is trying to partake in communion not for the sake of communion but because she is trying to agitate the cleric should be denied?
Will no one rid me of this turbulent woman?
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Dewey
Mar 1 2012, 07:35 PM

This woman would have received the Lord's Supper in my tradition. We believe that the sacrament is open to any baptized believer, flawed and imperfect, and even if they carry some doubts - "all those who trust in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ," as I say at the beginning of the sacrament. We believe that the sacrament should be entered into prayerfully and with seriousness, but ultimately, only the person himself or herself my determine, consistent with their own conscience, whether they should participate in the meal or not - the minister will not stop someone from participating.
Does it matter is she's a self professed Buddhist?
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Amazing. Perhaps it is she that should be sued.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Mikhailoh
Mar 8 2012, 08:26 AM
Amazing. Perhaps it is she that should be sued.
Surely burning her at the stake would be more appropriate.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Buddhist, man. Self-immolation is where it's at for those guys.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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somebody else's sock
Middle Aged Carp
Many Christians find value in other teachings.

Like this Catholic theologian interviewed for an article for the National Catholic Reporter: http://ncronline.org/news/double-belonging-buddhism-and-christian-faith

Quote:
 
Why such a broad interest today in Buddhism among Christians?

There’s no one answer. In the book, I quote a friend of mine, Fr. Michael O’Halloran, who is formerly a Carthusian monk and now a priest here in the New York archdiocese. He is also a Zen teacher. Michael once told me that Christianity is long on content but short on method and technique. So I think Buddhism is providing Christians with practices, with techniques, by which they can enter more experientially into the content of what they believe.
Edited by somebody else's sock, Mar 8 2012, 09:20 AM.
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Renauda
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HOLY CARP!!!
somebody else's sock
Mar 8 2012, 09:10 AM
Many Christians find value in other teachings.

Like this Catholic theologian interviewed for an article for the National Catholic Reporter: http://ncronline.org/news/double-belonging-buddhism-and-christian-faith


That should make more than just a few fundamentalist heads exlpode from superstition induced apoplexy.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Cafeteria plans for faith. :lol2:
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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somebody else's sock
Middle Aged Carp
Did you read the article, Mik? It's not "cafeteria plans" at all.
Edited by somebody else's sock, Mar 8 2012, 09:40 AM.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
somebody else's sock
Mar 8 2012, 09:10 AM
Many Christians find value in other teachings.

Like this Catholic theologian interviewed for an article for the National Catholic Reporter: http://ncronline.org/news/double-belonging-buddhism-and-christian-faith

Quote:
 
Why such a broad interest today in Buddhism among Christians?

There’s no one answer. In the book, I quote a friend of mine, Fr. Michael O’Halloran, who is formerly a Carthusian monk and now a priest here in the New York archdiocese. He is also a Zen teacher. Michael once told me that Christianity is long on content but short on method and technique. So I think Buddhism is providing Christians with practices, with techniques, by which they can enter more experientially into the content of what they believe.
I'm not sure that has anything to do with the subject. There is a lot of overlap in spiritual practices between monks in various religions, and there is a lot of interfaith dialogue. Whether one can be a practicing and believing Buddhist and a practicing and believing Christian is a different matter.

And for some reason, I think that a person aggressively presenting herself to receive Catholic communion as a grandstanding political statement seems hardly to be a model of Buddhist introspection and humility.

BTW, "Michael once told me that Christianity is long on content but short on method and technique." is a bizarre statement from a former monk -- the Christian tradition has a massive inventory of meditation and contemplation and spiritual "techniques", from the Hesychasts, to the Jesus Prayer, to the Rosary, to Eucharistic Adoration, to the Divine Mercy, to the Consecration to the Sacred Heart, to the Mass and the sacraments, to the examination of conscience, to the works of mercy, to the Liturgy of the Hours, etc.
Edited by ivorythumper, Mar 8 2012, 09:46 AM.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
Quote:
 
BTW, "Michael once told me that Christianity is long on content but short on method and technique." is a bizarre statement from a former monk -- the Christian tradition has a massive inventory of meditation and contemplation and spiritual "techniques", from the Hesychasts, to the Jesus Prayer, to the Rosary, to Eucharistic Adoration, to the Divine Mercy, to the Consecration to the Sacred Heart, to the Mass and the sacraments, to the examination of conscience, to the works of mercy, to the Liturgy of the Hours, etc.


This^^
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Larry
Mar 5 2012, 06:30 PM
Well I'm a lesbian, I don't care what the rest of you do.....
Lar, are you more of a lipstick lesbian or a rather large Dyke on Bike?
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
ivorythumper
Mar 8 2012, 08:23 AM
Dewey
Mar 1 2012, 07:35 PM

This woman would have received the Lord's Supper in my tradition. We believe that the sacrament is open to any baptized believer, flawed and imperfect, and even if they carry some doubts - "all those who trust in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ," as I say at the beginning of the sacrament. We believe that the sacrament should be entered into prayerfully and with seriousness, but ultimately, only the person himself or herself my determine, consistent with their own conscience, whether they should participate in the meal or not - the minister will not stop someone from participating.
Does it matter is she's a self professed Buddhist?
Yes, I would think that it would. Is that what she told the priest, and is that why he refused to serve her?
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Dewey
Mar 8 2012, 02:30 PM
ivorythumper
Mar 8 2012, 08:23 AM
Dewey
Mar 1 2012, 07:35 PM

This woman would have received the Lord's Supper in my tradition. We believe that the sacrament is open to any baptized believer, flawed and imperfect, and even if they carry some doubts - "all those who trust in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ," as I say at the beginning of the sacrament. We believe that the sacrament should be entered into prayerfully and with seriousness, but ultimately, only the person himself or herself my determine, consistent with their own conscience, whether they should participate in the meal or not - the minister will not stop someone from participating.
Does it matter is she's a self professed Buddhist?
Yes, I would think that it would. Is that what she told the priest, and is that why he refused to serve her?
I have no idea what transpired between the two of them. But isn't it still down to her conscience whether she receives communion from you? You're not the guardian.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Maybe he tried to shag her in the vestry and she spurned his clumsy advances, earning his mighty wrath and most righteous wos'name. That happened at my grandmother's funeral. Or maybe it was my brother's wedding. One of those, anyway. How was I to know it wasn't fancy dress?
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
ivorythumper
Mar 8 2012, 03:26 PM
Dewey
Mar 8 2012, 02:30 PM
ivorythumper
Mar 8 2012, 08:23 AM
Dewey
Mar 1 2012, 07:35 PM

This woman would have received the Lord's Supper in my tradition. We believe that the sacrament is open to any baptized believer, flawed and imperfect, and even if they carry some doubts - "all those who trust in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ," as I say at the beginning of the sacrament. We believe that the sacrament should be entered into prayerfully and with seriousness, but ultimately, only the person himself or herself my determine, consistent with their own conscience, whether they should participate in the meal or not - the minister will not stop someone from participating.
Does it matter is she's a self professed Buddhist?
Yes, I would think that it would. Is that what she told the priest, and is that why he refused to serve her?
I have no idea what transpired between the two of them. But isn't it still down to her conscience whether she receives communion from you? You're not the guardian.
I believe that if you read my several posts in this thread, you'll note that I've consistently said that the sacrament is intended for "baptized believers;" "all those who trust in the name of the Lord." Yes, it is a Christian rite. Beyond that, I'm not to be a "guardian" who would block believers from the sacrament.

As far as what was said to the priest, I'd say that if she told him she was Buddhist, and he refused her the sacrament for that reason, that's the very first thing the priest, the bishop, and anyone else involved in the incident would have pointed out. There's nothing wrong about denying a Buddhist from participating in the Christian Eucharist, and certainly nothing for which an apology needed to have been issued for. Clearly, by the church's actions, this was not the case. She was denied communion because of her sexuality.

But make no mistake: my gripe in this case has very little to do with the specifics of "the gay issue," and it isn't an "anti-Catholic thing." My issue here is "closed table" theology. We've discussed it at length before; I think that it's a terrible theology and something that any church who espouses it will ultimately have to answer for to God, in that is sets up an improper obstacle for believers' participation in something that the Lord has commanded us to participate in.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
But she's also a baptized christian... so how do you not communicate her?
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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