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Where's the Catholic Church must cover contraception and abortion thread?
Topic Started: Feb 7 2012, 05:07 PM (1,509 Views)
John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Renauda
Feb 10 2012, 12:00 PM
Gingrich hell, it sounds like a precis of the life of Churchill.
I'm pretty sure when Gingrich looks in the mirror he sees either Teddy Roosevelt or Churchill. Someone needs to tell him that simply being a fat politician isn't enough.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Renauda
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HOLY CARP!!!
Then perhaps he sees Hindenburg in the mirror as well?
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Renauda
Feb 10 2012, 12:24 PM
Then perhaps he sees Hindenburg in the mirror as well?
Posted Image
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
US Bishops' Statement

Posted Image
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
ivorythumper
Feb 10 2012, 07:22 PM
Renauda
Feb 10 2012, 12:24 PM
Then perhaps he sees Hindenburg in the mirror as well?
Posted Image
That actually fits pretty well.

In his own words:

Quote:
 
A lesser person could not have survived the first few minutes of the onslaught. But out of the billowing smoke and dust of tweets and trivia emerged Gingrich
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
ivorythumper
Feb 10 2012, 07:25 PM
Churches are exempt.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Hitler?
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
jon-nyc
Feb 11 2012, 01:37 AM
Churches are exempt.
It's very unusual of IT to be so casual in his use of language :lol:
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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apple
one of the angels
in my neck of the woods, the Catholics can do some drinking.. some heavy drinking. I always found this surprising... or maybe they are all just great friends who can let it all hang out and have some great fun.

I think the hardest I've ever laughed was coming upon a group of them drinking margaritas from a cooler.. they were all toasted and laughing. Apparently Tom and Regina, a married couple and parents to 10 kids are in charge of the 'natural family planning' chapter of our parish.I've been thinking about it.. well I've been laughing about it for years. They are a darling couple but have failed their own course big time.
it behooves me to behold
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apple
one of the angels
oooh and while I'm at it.. if males became pregnant you can be sure that the church would condom condone contraception.
it behooves me to behold
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George K
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Finally
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203646004577215150068215494.html?mod=djemEditorialPage_t

Quote:
 
Immaculate Contraception

Under the original Health and Human Services regulation, all religious institutions except for houses of worship would be required to cover birth control, including hospitals, schools and charities. Under the new rule, which the White House stresses is "an accommodation" and not a compromise, nonprofit religious organizations won't have to directly cover birth control and can opt out. But the insurers they hire to cover their employees can't opt out. If that sounds like a distinction without a difference, odds are you're a rational person.

Say Notre Dame decides that its health plan won't cover birth control on moral grounds. A faculty member wants such coverage, so Notre Dame's insurer will then be required to offer the benefit as an add-on rider anyway, at no out-of-pocket cost to her, or to any other worker or in higher premiums for the larger group.

But wait. Supposedly the original rule was necessary to ensure "access" to contraceptives, which can cost up to $600 a year as Democratic Senators Jeanne Shaheen, Barbara Boxer and Patty Murray wrote in these pages this week. The true number is far less, but where does that $600 or whatever come from, if not from Notre Dame and not the professor?

Insurance companies won't be making donations. Drug makers will still charge for the pill. Doctors will still bill for reproductive treatment. The reality, as with all mandated benefits, is that these costs will be borne eventually via higher premiums. The balloon may be squeezed differently over time, and insurers may amortize the cost differently over time, but eventually prices will find an equilibrium. Notre Dame will still pay for birth control, even if it is nominally carried by a third-party corporation.

This cut-out may appease a few of the Administration's critics, especially on the Catholic left—but only if they want to be deceived again, having lobbied for the Affordable Care Act that created the problem in the first place. The faithful for whom birth control is a matter of religious conviction haven't been accommodated at all. They'll merely have to keep two sets of accounting books
...
Yesterday's new adventure in damage control and bureaucratic improvisation makes the compliance problem much worse. There is simply no precedent for the government ordering private companies to offer a product for free, even if they recoup the costs indirectly. Why not do that with all health benefits and "bend the cost curve" to zero? The shape of the final rule when the details land in the Federal Register is anyone's guess, including the HHS gnomes who are throwing it together on the fly to meet a political deadline.

One major problem will be how the rule applies to large organizations that self-insure. Arrangements in which an employer pays for care directly and uses insurers to manage benefits and process claims (not to take on insurance risk) account for the majority of the private market. In these cases there isn't even a free lunch to pretend exists.

***
As reporting by Bloomberg and ABC this week has made clear, the contraception mandate was fiercely opposed within the Administration, including by Vice President Joe Biden. The larger tragedy is that none of them objected to government health care, which will always take choices away from individuals and arrogate them to an infallible higher power in Washington. Who was it again who claimed that if you like your health plan, you can keep your health plan?.
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"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Copper
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Shortstop
Freedom.

Quote:
 

It would still mandate that all insurers must include coverage for the objectionable services in all the policies they would write. At this point, it would appear that self-insuring religious employers, and religious insurance companies, are not exempt from this mandate.

·It would allow non-profit, religious employers to declare that they do not offer such coverage. But the employee and insurer may separately agree to add that coverage. The employee would not have to pay any additional amount to obtain this coverage, and the coverage would be provided as a part of the employer’s policy, not as a separate rider.


The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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George K
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Finally
Copper
Feb 11 2012, 06:51 AM
Freedom.

Quote:
 

It would still mandate that all insurers must include coverage for the objectionable services in all the policies they would write. At this point, it would appear that self-insuring religious employers, and religious insurance companies, are not exempt from this mandate.

·It would allow non-profit, religious employers to declare that they do not offer such coverage. But the employee and insurer may separately agree to add that coverage. The employee would not have to pay any additional amount to obtain this coverage, and the coverage would be provided as a part of the employer’s policy, not as a separate rider.


It's FREE, don'tcha know.

Another question is this: Since, under the mandate, insurers are obligated to provide contraception, will Catholic hospitals be required to perform tubal ligations?

If so, at whose expense? The insurers' (snort giggle)?
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
What are you guys complaining about?
Are you against women getting artificial contraception without co-pay?
The administration found a way to let those church-affiliated organizations not pay for artificial contraception.
If you keep complaining, you will find yourself complaining about women working for such organizations getting the same insurance coverage for artificial contraceptions that other women get.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Axtremus
Feb 11 2012, 07:19 AM
What are you guys complaining about?
Are you against women getting artificial contraception without co-pay?
The administration found a way to let those church-affiliated organizations not pay for artificial contraception.
If you keep complaining, you will find yourself complaining about women working for such organizations getting the same insurance coverage for artificial contraceptions that other women get.
Government.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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George K
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Finally
Axtremus
Feb 11 2012, 07:19 AM
The administration found a way to let those church-affiliated organizations not pay for artificial contraception.
Howzzat again?

It's "free?"
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
All gummint stuff is free, George. We are the land of the free.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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George K
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Finally
Oh, and for the record, I have no problem with voluntary sterilization of either sex. I'm not sure I even have a problem with IUD's or morning after pills (note, I said "I'm not sure").

I am sure that I have a problem with the government telling those who object to it to pay for it.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Are you saying that women who work for church-affiliated organizations have to get lesser artificial contraceptive coverage?
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Axtremus
Feb 11 2012, 07:44 AM
Are you saying that women who work for church-affiliated organizations have to get lesser artificial contraceptive coverage?
It's a somewhat free country.

They can always work somewhere else.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
George K
Feb 11 2012, 07:34 AM
I am sure that I have a problem with the government telling those who object to it to pay for it.
1. The government does not tell those who oppose artificial contraceptive pay for it.

2. When you express similar outrage on the government requiring those who oppose immunization to pay for insurance that covers imminizations anyway, you'd have some sliver of credibility with that statement.
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Jolly
Feb 11 2012, 07:46 AM
Axtremus
Feb 11 2012, 07:44 AM
Are you saying that women who work for church-affiliated organizations have to get lesser artificial contraceptive coverage?
It's a somewhat free country.

They can always work somewhere else.
Thank you for clarifying. You stick to that, Jolly.
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George K
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Finally
Axtremus
Feb 11 2012, 07:44 AM
Are you saying that women who work for church-affiliated organizations have to get lesser artificial contraceptive coverage?
No, I'm saying that this STILL forces chuch-affiliated organizations to pay for artificial contraception and abortifactants.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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George K
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Finally
Axtremus
Feb 11 2012, 07:52 AM
George K
Feb 11 2012, 07:34 AM
I am sure that I have a problem with the government telling those who object to it to pay for it.
1. The government does not tell those who oppose artificial contraceptive pay for it.

2. When you express similar outrage on the government requiring those who oppose immunization to pay for insurance that covers imminizations anyway, you'd have some sliver of credibility with that statement.
Analogy fail.

1) As I asked, and you didn't answer, who's going to pay for this coverage. Don't tell me, as the President did, that it will be "free." There's no such thing.

2) When you can show me that contraception and abortion provide the same benefits to society that immunizations do, you might have a sliver of credibility left.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Who is paying for it? Every body who pays the insurance company premium, every body who buys goods and services from the companies that the insurance company has investments in and draw dividends from. This include insurance companies that churches have been paying for a long time, those that cover not only artificial contraceptives but also a abortions. If the insurance companies invests in and draw dividends from companies that have revenues from government sources, then all tax payers, including all the cardinals and bishops and priests, pay for it. It has been thus for decades, if not longer.
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