Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to The New Coffee Room. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 7
  • 9
Proposition 8 ruled "unconstitutional"; ...sets up Supreme Court battle
Topic Started: Feb 7 2012, 10:09 AM (2,433 Views)
Axtremus
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
ivorythumper
Feb 10 2012, 05:35 PM
All marriages are considered valid without evidence to the contrary, the most notable evidence being a divorce.
There you go again. "All marriages are considered valid" ...except same-sex marriages per your post.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
KlavierBauer
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Ax: I'm not sure what point you keep trying to make.

If there isn't gay marriage, isn't IT's statement logically true?
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ivorythumper
Member Avatar
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Axtremus
Feb 10 2012, 05:54 PM
ivorythumper
Feb 10 2012, 05:35 PM
All marriages are considered valid without evidence to the contrary, the most notable evidence being a divorce.
There you go again. "All marriages are considered valid" ...except same-sex marriages per your post.
Yes, non marriages that someone calls "marriage" are not considered valid. E.g., two children who play to be married and call themselves married really aren't married and don't need an annulment. I'm glad you're following along.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
jon-nyc
Member Avatar
Cheers
kenny
Feb 10 2012, 05:22 PM
I'm cornfuzed.
Am I X Y or Z?
Yes.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
KlavierBauer
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Marriages, being a legal definition, are tautologically valid no?
(agreeing with your point IT)
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
jon-nyc
Member Avatar
Cheers
KlavierBauer
Feb 10 2012, 05:56 PM
Ax: I'm not sure what point you keep trying to make.

If there isn't gay marriage, isn't IT's statement logically true?
Well, its a tautology, tantamount to 'the church considers all marriages valid except for the ones that it doesn't consider valid'.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
KlavierBauer
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Right...
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ivorythumper
Member Avatar
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
jon-nyc
Feb 10 2012, 06:03 PM
KlavierBauer
Feb 10 2012, 05:56 PM
Ax: I'm not sure what point you keep trying to make.

If there isn't gay marriage, isn't IT's statement logically true?
Well, its a tautology, tantamount to 'the church considers all marriages valid except for the ones that it doesn't consider valid'.
That would actually be an interesting point to make if it had any relevance to either the way the Church adjudicates broken marriages or to anything I wrote.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ivorythumper
Member Avatar
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
KlavierBauer
Feb 10 2012, 06:02 PM
Marriages, being a legal definition, are tautologically valid no?
(agreeing with your point IT)
Not my point. Marriage, being the permanent and exclusive union of one man and woman for the mutual benefit of the spouses and to provide for the formation and education of any children therein engendered, are presumed valid without evidence to the contrary. All the legal discussion is quite secondary to the primary understanding of marriage which is foundational to any transgenerational society. To the extent that the legal system has forgotten this (or ignored it, or overruled it), those rulings are incompatible with the dictates of reason, which is the very essence of law.

(and everyone -- even those advocating gay marriage and adoption -- ultimately have to appeal to reason on some level as the basis of law).
The dogma lives loudly within me.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
John D'Oh
Member Avatar
MAMIL
So, by 'any marriage' what they actually mean is 'any marriage that we acknowledge to be marriage'.

Therefore, if a gay bloke is legally married to another bloke, the Roman Catholic church should let him marry a woman without charging them the 500 bucks.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ivorythumper
Member Avatar
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
John D'Oh
Feb 10 2012, 06:47 PM
So, by 'any marriage' what they actually mean is 'any marriage that we acknowledge to be marriage'.

Therefore, if a gay bloke is legally married to another bloke, the Roman Catholic church should let him marry a woman without charging them the 500 bucks.
Why yes, that works.

Any marriage we acknowledge to be marriage = any legal marriage of a consenting adult man and a consenting adult woman. It's really pretty simple, e.g., child marriage or a polygamous marriage does not require a determination of nullity.
Edited by ivorythumper, Feb 10 2012, 06:59 PM.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Free Rider
Member Avatar
Fulla-Carp
ivorythumper
Feb 10 2012, 05:44 PM
I like him too. I just wish he'd answer a simple question about whether he as judge would allow a free love commune all the status and benefits of a marriage, including the right to adopt.
I would hope the answer would be no.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Dewey
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
ivorythumper
Feb 10 2012, 04:04 PM
Dewey
Feb 10 2012, 02:59 PM
ivorythumper
Feb 10 2012, 12:27 PM
Copper
Feb 10 2012, 12:23 PM
Dewey
Feb 10 2012, 11:50 AM

Please don't offer an argument to support what the church is doing. I understand the church's explanation; I just think it's ridiculous, and I'm not going to get into an equally ridiculous debate over it.

Getting into a ridiculous debate by saying you're not getting into a ridiculous debate is ridiculous.

I am willing to pretend this never happened.
Indeed -- but that would mean Dewey couldn't soap box, as if everything he said subsequently could not have been anticipated by any of us. :lol2:
I know it's hard for you to imagine anyone wanting to go on record with an opinion, and not wanting to argue about it until the second coming, but there it is anyway. :tongue:
No, it's not hard at all - you do this with some frequency. :lol2:
You say that as if wanting to spend countless hours banging one's head against a wall via a senseless debate would be a more desirable choice. ^_^

Many times, I want to simply register an opinion and not debate because while I might actually want to debate it, I don't have time to do the discussion justice. Other times, I just think it would be pointless.

Often, it's actually very refreshing to just cast your ballot and leave without agreeing to be subjected to the exit inquisition poll.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ivorythumper
Member Avatar
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Dewey
Feb 10 2012, 07:50 PM
You say that as if wanting to spend countless hours banging one's head against a wall via a senseless debate would be a more desirable choice. ^_^
I learned that to avoid spending countless hours banging one's head against a wall, it helps to not bang one's head against a wall even once. You might try that too. ^_^
The dogma lives loudly within me.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Dewey
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Quote:
 
I learned that to avoid spending countless hours banging one's head against a wall, it helps to not bang one's head against a wall even once.


I have seen absolutely no evidence that you've learned that lesson at all.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Dewey
Feb 10 2012, 07:50 PM
Many times, I want to simply register an opinion and not debate because while I might actually want to debate it, I don't have time to do the discussion justice. Other times, I just think it would be pointless.

Often, it's actually very refreshing to just cast your ballot and leave without agreeing to be subjected to the exit inquisition poll.
FINALLY!!! :thumb:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ivorythumper
Member Avatar
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Dewey
Feb 10 2012, 08:46 PM
Quote:
 
I learned that to avoid spending countless hours banging one's head against a wall, it helps to not bang one's head against a wall even once.


I have seen absolutely no evidence that you've learned that lesson at all.
You'd be surprised how often I decide to not bang my head against the wall when you post things. :lol2:
The dogma lives loudly within me.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Dewey
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Quote:
 
You'd be surprised how often I decide to not bang my head against the wall when you post things.


Oh by all means, don't let me stop you. ^_^
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Renauda
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Axtremus
Feb 10 2012, 05:54 PM
ivorythumper
Feb 10 2012, 05:35 PM
All marriages are considered valid without evidence to the contrary, the most notable evidence being a divorce.
There you go again. "All marriages are considered valid" ...except same-sex marriages per your post.


No Ax. After all these years of hot and steamy topic debate here, did you not get the memo?

Same-sex marriages are invariably filed under acts of Fornication. As such, fornication is absolved by a simple trip to the confessional followed by a priestly prescription of contrite penance. No need to annul. A charitable dollar or two in the parish alms box however would be appreciated.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
John D'Oh
Member Avatar
MAMIL
Renauda
Feb 11 2012, 08:54 AM
Axtremus
Feb 10 2012, 05:54 PM
ivorythumper
Feb 10 2012, 05:35 PM
All marriages are considered valid without evidence to the contrary, the most notable evidence being a divorce.
There you go again. "All marriages are considered valid" ...except same-sex marriages per your post.


No Ax. After all these years of hot and steamy topic debate here, did you not get the memo?

Same-sex marriages are invariably filed under acts of Fornication. As such, fornication is absolved by a simple trip to the confessional followed by a priestly prescription of contrite penance. No need to annul. A charitable dollar or two in the parish alms box however would be appreciated.
I'm beginning to see a pattern.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Renauda
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Indeed, the sins of Sodom are dispensed with at a bargain and repeat customers, while not necessarily encouraged, are always welcome.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ivorythumper
Member Avatar
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Renauda
Feb 11 2012, 08:54 AM

Same-sex marriages are invariably filed under acts of Fornication.
I know you keep repeating that, but homosexual acts are not fornication - they are other sorts of sins against chastity.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Renauda
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
ivorythumper
Feb 11 2012, 10:07 AM
Renauda
Feb 11 2012, 08:54 AM

Same-sex marriages are invariably filed under acts of Fornication.
I know you keep repeating that, but homosexual acts are not fornication - they are other sorts of sins against chastity.
Can I quote you on that zinger? :lol2:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
George K
Member Avatar
Finally
Renauda
Feb 11 2012, 10:09 AM
ivorythumper
Feb 11 2012, 10:07 AM
Renauda
Feb 11 2012, 08:54 AM

Same-sex marriages are invariably filed under acts of Fornication.
I know you keep repeating that, but homosexual acts are not fornication - they are other sorts of sins against chastity.
Can I quote you on that zinger? :lol2:
You just did. :P
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Renauda
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
George K
Feb 11 2012, 10:11 AM
Renauda
Feb 11 2012, 10:09 AM
ivorythumper
Feb 11 2012, 10:07 AM
Renauda
Feb 11 2012, 08:54 AM

Same-sex marriages are invariably filed under acts of Fornication.
I know you keep repeating that, but homosexual acts are not fornication - they are other sorts of sins against chastity.
Can I quote you on that zinger? :lol2:
You just did. :P
In retrospect a more appropriate response to IT's priceless obfuscation circumlocution would have been simply....

Posted Image

:sombrero:
Edited by Renauda, Feb 11 2012, 08:36 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · The New Coffee Room · Next Topic »
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 7
  • 9