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| Will Google change education? Should it? Has it? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 7 2011, 05:23 PM (543 Views) | |
| kenny | Dec 7 2011, 05:23 PM Post #1 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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In this thread Axtremus telling Klaus, "you can look good solving a $1 answer without investing $500 in time." got me thinking. Should the ability to Google so much stuff change what we teach kids or how we teach them? Serious question. If so, what should change? |
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| sue | Dec 7 2011, 10:01 PM Post #2 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Of course it should/does. Learning how to research, what sources to trust, is huge. Really important to teach kids critical thinking skills. |
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| John D'Oh | Dec 8 2011, 10:15 AM Post #3 |
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MAMIL
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My 7 year-old thinks you can find the solution to absolutely everything on-line. On more than one occasion, she's had trouble sleeping because of, in her words, 'something is worrying me but I'm not sure what it is'. She instructs me to look up the solution to 'something is worrying me but I'm not sure what it is' on the computer. I dutifully go downstairs, log in here for 5 minutes, then go up and tell her that the solution is to lie very still, breathe deeply, and count to 100 while thinking about flowers. The funny thing is it works a bloody treat, but ONLY if I tell her I found the answer on-line. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| Aqua Letifer | Dec 9 2011, 02:57 PM Post #4 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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Technology does not make learning any easier. There are no education get-rich-quick schemes. All technology does is give you better access to the tools you still need to use and refine to increase your knowledge. Blogs, social media, etc. allow you to have a voice, but they do not help you communicate effectively. Online tutoring and programs allow you to practice your math, but the point is that you're practicing. There are apps, videos, walkthroughs galore for helping you learn to draw, but you still have to draw the bad drawings out before the good ones can come in. Photoshop is now available to anyone, but you still need a thorough understanding of photography to make a good photo. We're given access to all of these specialized tools, but so many people lack the real knowledge required to use them. |
| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| Dewey | Dec 9 2011, 06:38 PM Post #5 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Google has helped me quite a bit educationally. Thanks to the school library offering offsite access to ATLASerials, and the availability on Google Books of some really obscure theological books, I don't have to slog to the library, or worse, request interlibrary loans and wait days to get books that I need for papers now. I don't have to drive ten miles, I don't have to be interrupted by well-meaning friends, or wait for use of the common computers, or be ticked off when I get there and find out that someone else has checked out some source I absolutely have to have. I can do my research anywhere, anytime. I just finished a paper on John A. Mackay, a 20th-century Presbyterian missionary, educator, proto-liberation theologian, groundbreaking ecumenicalist, president of Princeton Theological Seminary, target of the McCarthy hearings and author of a landmark attack, from the standpoint of the church, on the whole McCarthyism witch hunt. I never heard of the man before. I managed to do every single scrap of detailed, obscure, scholarly research online, sitting on my couch in my pajamas, without once accessing an actual, bound, hardcopy book or periodical. ATLASerials even has a click feature that gives footnotes and bibliograpy entries for the referenced article, in any of a half dozen or so different standard formats, ready to simply cut and paste into your paper. It's a beautiful thing. Of course, I still had to do the hard work of the research and the writing. But I was so intrigued by the life of this guy, and by the easy access to the information online, the actual work of writing the paper was actually very enjoyable. Google, and the internet in general, has definitely changed the educational process for me. Technology FTW!!!!!
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| Horace | Dec 9 2011, 06:45 PM Post #6 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I agree with Dewey, Google (by which I mean the internet and a good search engine) at the most basic level increases access to information. Only a small amount of critical thinking or common sense is required to sift the information to the point that the vast majority of what one sees is close enough to true to have value. Access to information enhances education, pretty much by definition. |
| As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good? | |
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| Aqua Letifer | Dec 10 2011, 08:09 PM Post #7 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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Well sure, if what you're working on is mediocre **** that hasn't much bearing on anything. You should ask some history scholars how easy their dissertations are thanks to the wonders of the interwebs. Or better yet: There were a couple of guys taking Wing Chun with our group awhile back. Really "enthusiastic" guys in that they read a LOT of online articles about training, watched several DVDs and videos, and emailed experts to get their opinions on training. They were horrible, simply because they didn't train enough, and when they did, they didn't do it right. Having access to information is worthless if you can't do anything with it, and yeah many people get by with very little critical thinking or problem solving. But getting by is nothing to be proud of. That's one of the biggest beefs I have generally, everything's so ****ing flippant and frivolous with people these days. |
| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| Horace | Dec 10 2011, 08:30 PM Post #8 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Well it's interesting that you mention history scholars. One can make a distinction between logical problem solving and fact-finding and you'd make a pretty meaningful distinction which split academia into two groups, neither of which are small. History is strongly in the latter camp. But then one of my favorite books of all time, Swafford's Brahms biography, is essentially a history book, though focused on a human to an extent that it requires a human touch. And I know there are choices there that have more to do with the artist (swafford) than the data. But yeah writing something new or interesting about history is a lost cause if your source is google. Not a huge fan of history, personally. Think it's an overrated discipline from which we can learn little more of meaning.
Yes, physical abilities, muscle memory, can't be trained by reading. You're teaching the wrong part of your body if you think differently. Your mind thinks, your muscles do. They all have nerve endings. The nerve endings have to learn. |
| As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good? | |
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| Aqua Letifer | Dec 10 2011, 08:43 PM Post #9 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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Well the two history scholars I know here do a decent enough job setting straight any opinion that history is simply about knowing stuff.
I'm not at all surprised. Nothing snide there, I'd just have guessed already you thought that way. I think ignorance only hurts, and having no context for the events of the world leaves us unqualified to understand them.
Yeah or piano playing would be an even better example. But the point remains the same with applying critical thinking to obtained knowledge. I don't consider it the walk in the park you seem to be implying it is, or else everyone would make a good diplomat, CEO or military tactician. |
| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| Axtremus | Dec 10 2011, 08:50 PM Post #10 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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What have they settled on? |
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| Horace | Dec 10 2011, 08:55 PM Post #11 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Assigning ignorance to others is easy; understanding them is harder. Let me know the next time a history breakthrough accomplishes anything. (But I know. It's academic trickle down. (At best.)) I don't find history particularly interesting for the same reason I don't find travel particularly interesting. My observations and my abstractions of them already account for the things I see. The data fits the observations. It's not interesting to me. |
| As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good? | |
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| Horace | Dec 10 2011, 09:13 PM Post #12 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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That's a whole other discussion about different strengths/weaknesses of the mind. I'm not sure I've gone there yet, but of course I've given such things some thought before. If you want to go there I'd be happy to but I'm not sure what you think I've said about such subjects. |
| As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good? | |
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| Aqua Letifer | Dec 11 2011, 05:33 PM Post #13 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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I'm not talking about name-calling vs. empathy, I'm talking about understanding something about the world in which you live. To be overly simplistic about it, history gives you context for events and helps you understand the world and people better. Are you saying you see no merit in not being an ignoramous about such things? If so, I really have no answer to that. I don't see how anyone can make a case for being uninformed. |
| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| Dewey | Dec 11 2011, 05:40 PM Post #14 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Well, Larry's been telling me for quite some time now that my education's been worse than worthless. Who knew the proof of it would come in my thinking that the internet had been of great benefit to my, and others', education.
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| Aqua Letifer | Dec 11 2011, 05:45 PM Post #15 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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My comments weren't directed at you at all, Dewey. I didn't disagree with what you said; Horace used your post as a springboard for his own, and I disagree with Horace. |
| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| Dewey | Dec 11 2011, 05:56 PM Post #16 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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It was a smiley "rolleyes," Aqua, not a disgusted "rolleyes." |
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| Copper | Dec 11 2011, 06:12 PM Post #17 |
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Shortstop
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The intelligence team that let the stealth drone fall into the hand of the Iranians certainly knew the history of the Trojan Horse. The lost drone isn't really a breakthrough yet, but it could be. And Stormin' Norman's use of the Hail Mary during the Gulf War was certainly due to his knowledge of Boston College history and Doug Flutie. That Hail Mary was certainly a breakthrough. |
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The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
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| KlavierBauer | Dec 12 2011, 09:47 AM Post #18 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I disagree that technology can't make learning any easier. It certainly has for me. People learn in different ways, and technology only broadens the scope in terms of ways to get information delivered into the brain in a way that the brain will hold onto it. I simply couldn't retain information in a classroom setting. I retain an incredible amount of information absorbed through multiple technological media. Technology doesn't make you smarter - you do. But the right tool for the job can certainly make the job easier - no doubt. |
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"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper "He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple | |
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| John D'Oh | Dec 12 2011, 10:52 AM Post #19 |
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MAMIL
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History is about people. How can that not be interesting? Personally, I find the analysis of the behaviour of doped semiconductors enormously boring, but people are endlessly entertaining - even the way in which they use doped semiconductors is entertaining. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| KlavierBauer | Dec 12 2011, 10:54 AM Post #20 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I'm a doped semiconductor. |
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"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper "He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple | |
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| John D'Oh | Dec 12 2011, 11:07 AM Post #21 |
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MAMIL
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The problem is that you forget which is the spliff, and which is the baton. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| KlavierBauer | Dec 12 2011, 11:15 AM Post #22 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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It's because of all of the doping. I'm really fast though - more like a superconductor. |
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"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper "He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple | |
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| KlavierBauer | Dec 12 2011, 11:15 AM Post #23 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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(PS: I never forget which is the spliff) |
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"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper "He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple | |
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| John D'Oh | Dec 12 2011, 11:32 AM Post #24 |
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MAMIL
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If you're too heavily doped, the audience might shout bore-off! Or should that be boron? OK, I'm done. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| Horace | Dec 12 2011, 06:00 PM Post #25 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Well you're begging the question, assuming history is required to understand important things and claiming it's silly to believe otherwise, given that. I'm just asking you to be specific about certain historical facts which help you understand things. Give me some examples, and try to extend it to why you'd be lost without those historical examples to use as context. History is such a broad subject, one could study it for a lifetime and not touch 1% of what's out there. If it's so important, we're all missing out on pretty much all that important stuff. Could you be specific about which parts of history are important? If you wanted to advise a high school freshman, what would be your priority list of history to study, and why? |
| As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good? | |
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4:47 PM Jul 10