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Amy Winehouse before drugs:; What a pretty girl, and what talent!
Topic Started: Dec 4 2011, 07:00 PM (1,860 Views)
Mark
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HOLY CARP!!!
kenny
Dec 5 2011, 02:20 PM
All music is good...to those who like it...and bad...to those who don't like it.

It's not the music, it's the person.

It is arrogant to think otherwise.
So, you like every note of every piece of music ever written.

Right. :rolleyes2:
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o 0
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Even Schoenberg? :hair:
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Mark
Dec 5 2011, 02:25 PM
kenny
Dec 5 2011, 02:20 PM
All music is good...to those who like it...and bad...to those who don't like it.

It's not the music, it's the person.

It is arrogant to think otherwise.
So, you like every note of every piece of music ever written.

Right. :rolleyes2:
How in the world did you surmise that from what I wrote?

The goodness or crappiness of music is a function of the listener, and people vary.
...unless God died and gave you the job. LOL

Someone likes the music you don't like.
To them the music is not bad.

To say music is bad PERIOD is arrogant, as if everyone in the world simply MUST share your taste.

Like what you want.
Dislike what you want.
No problem.
But please realize your like's carry the weight of just one person of 7-billion.
Even if you take the opinion of the largest-measured group (#1 song on this week's Billboard chart) that does not make that music "good" to everyone.

(Why do I feel I have written this same respect diversity post one zillion times? Oh, I know . . . because I HAVE.)
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Mikhailoh
Dec 5 2011, 02:32 PM
Even Schoenberg? :hair:
Someone likes it.
Not me, but someone... well, maybe two people. :P
To them it's good.
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somebody else's sock
Middle Aged Carp
Mikhailoh
Dec 5 2011, 02:32 PM
Even Schoenberg? :hair:
:lol2:
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Dave Spelvin
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Fulla-Carp
Mikhailoh
Dec 5 2011, 02:21 PM
People Who Died was the most New York song ever. Totally original.

My experience seeing RLJ was totally the opposite. She clearly had a lot of self-regard, but was warm and entertaining in a difficult venue. She was the co-headliner with Lyle Lovett, so a lot of country fans were there. When she started they had no idea what to make of her and clearly were unfamiliar with her music. When a lot of the county fans left she invited everyone else to come down into the front seats, which had NEVER happened at Riverbend (shed circuit) and security did not prevent it. It was a very good show.

For an oldie with a great show go see Paul Simon. Saw him in 2007 or 8 up in Chicago at the Rosemount. Best. Band. Ever. They, and he, were absolutely incredible. Such musicianship.
I'm glad you had a good experience with RLJ. I was probably caught up in a rude NY crowd that thought it was getting her fronting a band, rather than the solo show we got instead. Reminded me of the time I heard Patti Smith plays clarinet (badly) in front of a rock and roll crowd. In that case, the boos rained down.
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Dave Spelvin
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Larry
Dec 5 2011, 02:04 PM
James T is getting old.. but it's hard for me to imagine him giving a boring concert. Glad I wasn't there to see it...
Don't worry. It was in Massachusetts. You wouldn't be caught dead there. :bluebiggrin:
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Nobody's Sock
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You wanna talk about a singer with great lungs:

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-style/pictures/katy-perrys-smooshed-boobs-2010166/8850

"Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known."
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Nobody's Sock
Dec 5 2011, 03:15 PM
Skru respecting diversity.
Everyone must agree THIS is the greatest musical talent EVEAH - and I've never even heard her!
Don't you just want her to cream in your mouth so you can swallow it?

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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
kenny
Dec 5 2011, 02:20 PM
All music is good...to those who like it...and bad...to those who don't like it.

It's not the music, it's the person.

It is arrogant to think otherwise.
That's a load of PC crap, if you'll forgive my arrogance.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
John D'Oh
Dec 5 2011, 03:38 PM
kenny
Dec 5 2011, 02:20 PM
All music is good...to those who like it...and bad...to those who don't like it.

It's not the music, it's the person.

It is arrogant to think otherwise.
That's a load of PC crap, if you'll forgive my arrogance.
So sorry.
YOUR musical taste certainly applies to everyone.
DO send out notices.

Oh Massa, what music in my collection would you have me destroy?
What do I need to buy?

I do doth bow to thee, oh Massa of the universe.
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Dave Spelvin
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Fulla-Carp
Kenny: What does music being "good" or "bad" have to do with someone's desire to listen to it? I have several guilty pleasures, including Gene Pitney, the Hi-Lo's and the Comedian Harmonists -- guilty, because everyone else in my family hates them and I have to listen in private or suffer the whining. I don't think this music is "good" compared to Brahms. Another example: I was just listening to my son's greatest hits collection of Deep Purple. I was thinking how laughably awful they were, until I found myself enjoying it. I hope that clears everything up for you. Regards,-Dave Spelvin
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Mark
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HOLY CARP!!!
Yep! I never said bad music cannot be enjoyed.

Most would listen to some of the music I enjoy and think it absolute rubbish.

Oh, there's D'oh influencing my vocabulary now... :lol:
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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
I'm with Kenny here.

As a form of artistic expression, it's difficult to call one thing music, and one thing not.
What Busta Rhymes can do with the rhythm of his voice is amazing. What WuTang could do with melody/emotion in rap music was amazing. What Lil Wayne can do lyrically on the fly is impressive to say the least. Those artists however, would to many music aficionados be considered to not be music.

The least forgiving of music people it seems, are the ones either don't play/perform themselves, or do so at a level that requires great strain/work on their part.
The classical and rock musicians I've worked with who were truly gifted/talented/virtuosic have never been so stuck up in their definitions/values when it comes to musics. They understand it is a language being spoken, and that everyone has something to say.
Not all of it is enjoyable of course - look at Cage. But to say it's without value (ie: good vs. bad) is incredibly naive.
Value is subjective (by definition), and so of course all music has value - or is good - because someone somewhere enjoys it and gives it that value.

We just had a beat-boxing cellist in studio a few weeks back, as he was a finalist on a TV show. Of course many of the classical snobs thought it was sacrilege, and the "new music" part of the building thought it was brilliant.
It was somewhere in between for most I think - but was certainly good, and had value, even if it was something I wouldn't purchase, or listen to on my own.


As for Lady Gaga - she's clearly got a set of pipes on her. Yes, I'm sure her music goes through heavy post-pro, but so what? There doesn't exist "un doctored" music, so criticizing doctored music is useless. It's a level playing field essentially in that regard. Everyone who's selling a product is going to try to sell the best version of their product they can - as they should.
Of course some take more doctoring than others, but I don't think Lady Gaga is at the top end of that curve, as an artist like Britney Spears or Katy Perry might be. They're great vocalists as well, but I think have less classical training, and less innate musical ability - not to mention the sheer diaphragmatic power.
To be clear, I'm not a fan of her music. Can't stand it really. But I'm not about to criticize her as a musician - her history, and her ability live (without much post-pro) all make it clear that she has natural talent and ability.

And Dave - you thought Deep Purple was laughably awful?! What about Ritchie Blackmore / Steve Morse?!
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
kenny
Dec 5 2011, 03:32 PM
Nobody's Sock
Dec 5 2011, 03:15 PM
Skru respecting diversity.
Everyone must agree THIS is the greatest musical talent EVEAH - and I've never even heard her!
Don't you just want her to cream in your mouth so you can swallow it?

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I dunno, I shall bow out to someone more experienced with people creaming in their mouth.

Do tell, kenny...
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Dave Spelvin
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Fulla-Carp
KlavierBauer
Dec 5 2011, 04:14 PM
And Dave - you thought Deep Purple was laughably awful?! What about Ritchie Blackmore / Steve Morse?!
Cock rock at its worst. And yes, I laughed out loud. It is horribly dated, but it is so trashy that I found myself enjoying it. Blackmore is a wanker -- to me, several cuts below Townsend, Beck, Clapton, Page, Mick Taylor, etc. etc. -- but a wanker with no audible self-consciousness. I can hear the spandex stretch as he thrusts his package toward the young nubiles. All in good fun, but good for a lark. And I can't tell the difference between Blackmore and Steve Morse. Is one in the blue spandex, and other in the red?
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Quote:
 
Gaga's problem is the same as Madonna's. The schtick gets in the way of the talent. She has a good voice (better than the Pre-Evita Madonna, if you ask me), but all the *other stuff* is what you pay attention to. Hopefully she'll mature into a serious performer who can display her talent and craft without the gimmicks.


It's not a problem. It's calculated. And, it's calculated to emulate Madonna...or so said the woman who choreographed all of Gaga's videos and stage shows.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
kenny
Dec 5 2011, 03:44 PM
John D'Oh
Dec 5 2011, 03:38 PM
kenny
Dec 5 2011, 02:20 PM
All music is good...to those who like it...and bad...to those who don't like it.

It's not the music, it's the person.

It is arrogant to think otherwise.
That's a load of PC crap, if you'll forgive my arrogance.
So sorry.
YOUR musical taste certainly applies to everyone.
DO send out notices.

Oh Massa, what music in my collection would you have me destroy?
What do I need to buy?

I do doth bow to thee, oh Massa of the universe.
I didn't say what I liked was better than what you liked, you bloody goober.

I don't like Wagnerian Opera, but I can still see it's better than The Spice Girls.

I can't bloody stand Kiri te Kanawa, but I can admit she's a better singer than Boys 2 Men.

Anybody who says otherwise is a moron.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
Quote:
 
And I can't tell the difference between Blackmore and Steve Morse. Is one in the blue spandex, and other in the red?

Really?
Don't like Morse - that's fine. As I just got done explaining, everyone's musical taste is valid.

But to make it sound like Blackmore and Morse are just precursors to lead Poison or Warrant Guitarists is a bit absurd.

Dixie Dregs were hardly hair-band rock.


"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
schindler
Dec 5 2011, 10:59 AM
Aqua, applying the _ubi sunt_ trope to popular music is really beneath you. :lol2:
Yeah I wondered if anyone was gonna call me on it. ^_^
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
KlavierBauer
Dec 5 2011, 04:14 PM
The least forgiving of music people it seems, are the ones either don't play/perform themselves, or do so at a level that requires great strain/work on their part.
The classical and rock musicians I've worked with who were truly gifted/talented/virtuosic have never been so stuck up in their definitions/values when it comes to musics. They understand it is a language being spoken, and that everyone has something to say.
Listen to a Wynton Marsalis rant and get back to me on that one :lol:

(I don't agree with anything he says, he's a jazz snob of the worst kind, but he's not exactly untalented)
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
I don't know, Dave, Highway Star is a pretty cool song. Gimme some time and I'll think of another one. Like a week or two. One thing I do know about Deep Purple - those sumbitches are LOUD!!!

Blackmore is now doing some kind of folkie-hobbit-fantasy acoustic act. Awful.


Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Dave Spelvin
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Fulla-Carp
KlavierBauer
Dec 5 2011, 04:35 PM
Quote:
 
And I can't tell the difference between Blackmore and Steve Morse. Is one in the blue spandex, and other in the red?

Really?
Don't like Morse - that's fine. As I just got done explaining, everyone's musical taste is valid.

But to make it sound like Blackmore and Morse are just precursors to lead Poison or Warrant Guitarists is a bit absurd.

Dixie Dregs were hardly hair-band rock.


Chops for days but doing nothing with them that interests me. Apropos of little, Steve Morse and Dixie Dregs played at my college many many years ago and Morse gave herpes to a friend of mine. Oh the horror, oh the despair.
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Dave Spelvin
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Mikhailoh
Dec 5 2011, 04:43 PM
I don't know, Dave, Highway Star is a pretty cool song. Gimme some time and I'll think of another one. Like a week or two. One thing I do know about Deep Purple - those sumbitches are LOUD!!!

Blackmore is now doing some kind of folkie-hobbit-fantasy acoustic act. Awful.


My favorite part of their "sound" is the overdriven Hammond organ. Loud, louder, loudest. I remember the Book of World Records years ago listing Deep Purple as the world's loudest band -- 140 dB, iirc. That's like two airplanes taking off while humping each other. I leave it to you to decide which spectacle is more entertaining.
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
Quote:
 
Listen to a Wynton Marsalis rant and get back to me on that one

(I don't agree with anything he says, he's a jazz snob of the worst kind, but he's not exactly untalented)

Well of course there are exceptions to this - I'm not posing it as a rule of any kind.
I'm merely saying that the most vocal in general, are aficionados themselves, and not "in it."

You don't see Olga Kern or Evgeny Kissin posting vitriolic rants about all of the musicians on the planet beneath them.
By and large, such people don't look at other musicians sizing them up.
In my experience as a musician, most musicians are thankful to find other musicians to make music with (thankfully, or I'd be up SC).
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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