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Do we *really* need a Postal Service?
Topic Started: Dec 4 2011, 05:37 PM (600 Views)
George K
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Finally
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/04/sunday-review/the-junking-of-the-postal-service.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&pagewanted=all

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The Junking of the Postal Service

A FEW weeks ago a petition appeared next to the mailboxes in my building’s lobby in Upper Manhattan. It read: “Save Saturday Delivery! ... Save the U.S. Postal Service!” Over the next 24 hours signatures poured onto the sheet of paper.

I will not say whether I signed. But I will tell you what arrived in my mailbox that Saturday: two credit card offers; a Linen Source catalog for someone who used to live in my apartment; a notice of a sale on running shoes; some coupons for 10 percent off on pizza delivery; three promotional letters about colleges; and a bank letter about changing terms on my son’s high-school checking account for 2012.

As junk mail multiplies and the United States Postal Service struggles for financial survival, experts are increasingly asking the question, do Americans need Saturday mail delivery ... or daily mail delivery ... or a state-run postal service at all? Should mail be a guaranteed government service — like primary education — because it is essential to our well-being? Or has this once hallowed institution, like pay phones, outlived its utility?

The founding fathers regarded the postal service as an essential instrument of nation building in a vast new country, serving to “bind the nation together,” according to the law that created it. After radio and telegraph communications rendered that role obsolete in the early 20th century, the post office instead took on an important commercial function, with bills and payments sent by mail allowing for the growth of regional and national companies. But faxes, then direct deposit, and now online billing and payments have provided alternative delivery systems for what was yesterday’s mail — from paychecks to birth announcements, said Ian Lee, a historian of both the United States and Canadian postal services.

“The post office is in the final stage of decaying into total irrelevance,” said Mr. Lee, a professor of strategic management at the Sprott School of Business at Carleton University in Ottawa.

The fact is that the primary beneficiary of the United States Postal Service today is arguably the advertisers whose leaflets and catalogs flood our mailboxes. First-class mail — items like bills and letters that require a 44-cent stamp — fell 6.6 percent in 2010 alone, continuing a five-year-long plunge. Last year was the first time that fewer than 50 percent of bills in the United States were paid by mail. There were 9.3 billion pounds of “standard mail” — the low-cost postage category available to mass advertisers — but only 3.7 billion of first-class mail.

In fact, to compensate for projected declines in “real” mail, the Postal Service has been aggressively promoting the use of new services for advertisers like Every Door Direct, which allows local retailers to place unaddressed promotional material in every mailbox in an area for pennies a piece, with a few clicks of a mouse.

“One could argue that the real customer of the Postal Service is now the direct mailer; it is a channel for advertising,” said Chuck Teller, founder of Catalog Choice, an online service in Berkeley, Calif., that helps people get their names off catalog mailing lists; this requires submitting the customer numbers on unwanted catalogs that arrive in the mailbox, one by one. And the problem is not just annoyance. Direct-mail advertising generates an estimated 10 billion pounds of waste each year, costing cities an estimated $1 billion to dispose of it, according to Catalog Choice.

No surprise then that dozens of United States localities have hired Catalog Choice to create Internet platforms to allow residents to opt out of mailings. Even at $22,000 for the first year of service, King County, Wash., which includes Seattle, has calculated that it will be a good investment for all the garbage collection it will obviate, said Tom Watson, a project manager in the solid waste division of the county. “I know it’s a big revenue stream for the Postal Service, but to justify this kind of waste because it supports jobs is insane,” said Mr. Watson, who noted that junk-mail reduction was hugely popular with voters.

The complicated relationship that many citizens have with the post office was tested in Canada this summer, when a monthlong hiatus in much of Canada’s mail delivery over a labor dispute provoked few complaints. When Canadian postal workers struck in 1990 there was great pressure on government to make concessions. This year, opinion columns ran under headlines like “Who Cares?” and “Postal Strike? Bring it on Baby: Walkout a momentary nuisance — until people realize they don’t need the post office anyway.” The Toronto Star predicted that Canadians would “quickly figure out ways to use it even less than they do now.”

And guess what? Canada’s post office long ago ended Saturday delivery and house-by-house delivery in some newer neighborhoods. (Mail is left in banks of boxes at subdivision entrances.)

If there is fairly wide agreement that government mail delivery today in America has little practical value for many, there is little consensus about what do to about it. Few broach doing away with the post office entirely.

THE post office is a large employer, especially of minority workers, and laying off hundreds of thousands of employees in this economy would be extremely difficult. Even postal skeptics note that it still delivers essential communication to small subgroups that are not (yet) well connected online: the elderly and rural residents. And how else would we get subscription magazines? Ralph Nader has argued that the service should be maintained because it is a crucial delivery network for items like medicine in the case of national emergencies. For now, the overwhelming majority of Americans who pay bills online still prefer to receive paper statements.

But to cover its costs, the post office needs to keep mail volume high. And even some high-end direct mailers worry that the contents of American mailboxes are coming to resemble a paper infomercial. “The post office has to make sure the signal-to-noise ratio remains high — if TV was all commercials no one would watch,” said Hamilton Davison, executive director of the American Catalog Mailers Association.

Some experts favor a general “do not mail” option for people who do not want to receive any direct mail — although advertisers vehemently oppose that approach, maintaining that glossy unsolicited catalogs remain beloved by shoppers, and the postal system would most likely collapse if there were a sudden drop in its business. The Postal Service claims that 81 percent of American households surveyed in 2010 reported that they either read or scanned advertising mail.

So, Professor Lee asked: “If the Postal Service has become a subsidized tool for mass mailers, why does the state still own it?” Perhaps catalogs should be delivered by private companies, ending the centuries-old law that the only a government employee can place things in your mailbox. And what’s the point of getting mail every day, when recycling is picked up only once a week?

It is striking that even though many European countries have privatized postal services — shedding thousands of buildings and millions of jobs — the actual delivery of mail looks much as it does here. Deutsche Post, the German postal carrier, which converted from a state company to a private one over a decade ago, is still required to provide coverage six days a week. (And it still delivers and encourages direct mail.)

Mr. Davison said the catalog mailers in his industry group could accept the loss of Saturday delivery, and would be fine with every-other-day delivery if that kept the post office afloat and costs down, noting that rates for glossy catalogs have increased greatly. So why are residents of my building resistant? Perhaps it is lingering nostalgia for the thrill of opening a party invitation or a letter from a long-lost college friend — before we had Evite and Facebook.

Maybe they should ask themselves the last time they sent one through the mail — or signed something they then put in an envelope.

Would its abolition require a Constitutional amendment?
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
It might, but forcing itself to price its services according to cost wouldn't.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
There you go. I have no problem with the postal service as long as it is self-supporting.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Copper
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Shortstop
George K
Dec 4 2011, 05:37 PM

As junk mail multiplies and the United States Postal Service struggles for financial survival, experts are increasingly asking the question, do Americans need Saturday mail delivery ... or daily mail delivery ... or a state-run postal service at all? Should mail be a guaranteed government service — like primary education — because it is essential to our well-being? Or has this once hallowed institution, like pay phones, outlived its utility?

Yes, yes and no.

It may outlive its utility someday, but not yet.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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RosemaryTwo
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HOLY CARP!!!
It's like le petit prince moving rocks for the sake of the routine.

I walk to the mailbox; I walk to the recying bin. Over and over.
"Perhaps the thing to do is just to let stupid run its course." Aqua
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Newpianoplayer
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Senior Carp
We don't have weekend, holiday delivery.
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Copper
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Shortstop

Remember when we had two home mail deliveries per day, and two newspapers - morning and evening?
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Stop delivering to far out rural addresses.
I read in LA Times or maybe it was CNN that these expensive low-density locations are why UPS and FedEx declined taking over US mail delivery.

Services like cable TV, water, gas, sewage are not available to far out rural locations either.
If you expect those you don't move out to the sticks.
Why should snail mail mail be a unique right of all?
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George K
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Finally
kenny
Dec 4 2011, 06:39 PM
Stop delivering to far out rural addresses.

I read in LA Times or maybe it was CNN that these expensive low-density locations are why UPS and FedEx declined taking over US mail delivery.
Could be.

But do you want to discriminate a government service based on how far away you might live? Who knows what discrimination will be next.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
George K
Dec 4 2011, 06:41 PM
kenny
Dec 4 2011, 06:39 PM
Stop delivering to far out rural addresses.

I read in LA Times or maybe it was CNN that these expensive low-density locations are why UPS and FedEx declined taking over US mail delivery.
Could be.

But do you want to discriminate a government service based on how far away you might live? Who knows what discrimination will be next.
If they don't discriminate, then they can't compete fairly, in which case forcing them to be profitable is tantamount to forcing them out of business, which is a rather stupid thing to do in my opinion. It would basically be saying that it's preferable to have no postal service to having one that is competitive.

Maybe the private couriers should be legislated against to ensure that they take the unprofitable areas as well? (That should make some conservative heads explode)
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
George K
Dec 4 2011, 06:41 PM
kenny
Dec 4 2011, 06:39 PM
Stop delivering to far out rural addresses.

I read in LA Times or maybe it was CNN that these expensive low-density locations are why UPS and FedEx declined taking over US mail delivery.
Could be.

But do you want to discriminate a government service based on how far away you might live? Who knows what discrimination will be next.
Good point, but we have to ask what kind of old fashioned stuff all Americans will always have a right to regardless of cost in a changing world.
I think everyone should have the right to pay taxes. :P

Hey I know, let's raise taxes on the rural folks who cost the US Postal system more.
Then lower taxes on people who are cheaper to deliver to, like those who live in high rises in Manhattan where 1000 addresses have ONE drop off in the lobby.

Or, change the stamp system so a first class letter to cheap locations will get a cheaper stamp.

These are both more fair than pretending all service costs the same regardless of location, as if equal cost for service with varying cost was some civil rights thing. :rolleyes2:
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
If it's "profitable," tons of private companies would do it.

If it is not profitable, then no private company would want to do it (at least not for long).

If it's unprofitable and "essential" (hence needs to be around for a long time), it becomes a "public service" (or at least state-sponsored) because no private company would want to do it on their own.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Let's tax the hell out of childless people since our kids are going to be paying their retirement benefits. Besides, they don't have kids so they don't need the money anyway.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Axtremus
Dec 5 2011, 09:01 AM
If it's unprofitable and "essential" ...
Is snail mail still essential?
THAT is the question.

I imagine people who can't afford a computer think it is.
Next, would it be cheaper to keep the US Postal Service as it is or give these poor people a computer and training on how to get email.

Calm down Larry, this may be cheaper.
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Mikhailoh
Dec 5 2011, 09:12 AM
Let's tax the hell out of childless people since our kids are going to be paying their retirement benefits. Besides, they don't have kids so they don't need the money anyway.
Already, childless people are paying more taxes because they not qualify for child tax credit and cannot claim extra exemptions for dependent children.
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
We also pay through the nose on our property taxes for school systems that will never be of any use to us.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
JBryan
Dec 5 2011, 10:08 AM
We also pay through the nose on our property taxes for school systems that will never be of any use to us.
I disagree.
I have no kids but do not want to live where zillions of adults got no education when they were kids, and home schooling give me the creeps.

I'm glad to fund public schools; people are stupid enough already.
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
What are you disagreeing with? I have no problem with paying for it. I am just pointing out that there is more than one way that wealth is transferred from one generation to another.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
JBryan
Dec 5 2011, 10:16 AM
What are you disagreeing with? I have no problem with paying for it. I am just pointing out that there is more than one way that wealth is transferred from one generation to another.
Quote, "We also pay through the nose on our property taxes for school systems that will never be of any use to us."

I believe the public school system IS of use to us even if you don't have kids or are rich enough for private schools.
Imperfect as it is, imagine our country if there were no public school system.
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
You have some reason for picking a fight with me where there is no disagreement? Quoting me out of context does not create one.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
JBryan
Dec 5 2011, 10:27 AM
You have some reason for picking a fight with me where there is no disagreement? Quoting me out of context does not create one.
Huh?

I read it all again and . . . huh?
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
Let me put it this way. I do not disagree with anything you said except for the bit about home schooling which you dislike because you find it "creepy" and not because of any hard metric as to its performance. But that is beside the point anyway.

Public schools will never be of any use to me but that does not mean I oppose them, nor do I oppose paying for them. Read what I wrote in the context of the actual discussion at hand.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
But you have SO MUCH! Surely we should have more of it for the common good.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
JBryan
Dec 5 2011, 10:33 AM
Let me put it this way. I do not disagree with anything you said except for the bit about home schooling which you dislike because you find it "creepy" and not because of any hard metric as to its performance. But that is beside the point anyway.

Public schools will never be of any use to me but that does not mean I oppose them, nor do I oppose paying for them. Read what I wrote in the context of the actual discussion at hand.
Okay.
And I argue that public schools ARE of use to you.
Image your life if they did not exist.
Most Americans would be more stupid.
Businesses would suffer.
Poverty would be rampant and crime would skyrocket.
The educated wealthy would live behind barbed wire gated communities.
America would become a third world country.

I believe that you would be affected if a huge percentage of the citizens of your country had no education and the middle class of America vanished.
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
Quote:
 
But you have SO MUCH! Surely we should have more of it for the common good.


I am probably in Jon's top 10% who own 40% of the wealth since the top 1% make $500,000.00 or more. If that makes me wealthy, however, it is lost on me.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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