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US GDP reached historic new high; even after adjusting for inflation
Topic Started: Oct 29 2011, 11:14 AM (245 Views)
Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
BEA release:

http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/national/gdp/2011/txt/gdp3q11_adv.txt

As of the 3rd quarter of 2011, US GDP has reached a new all time high.

As measured by the GDP, the US economy has recovered from the "great recession." It has exceeded the previous high set before Bush's "great recession."

The US GDP has set a new record, an all time high, under the Obama administration.

So why the heck unemployment rate is still high and many people still are (or feel) "poor" or "poorer than before" in the US?

Because most of the gain went to the wealthiest segment of the population (e.g., the richest 1%).

So, to all the rich people, once again, congratulations.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
So all those really wealthy people produced all that wealth without having to hire anyone? Pretty amazing. :clap: :clap: :clap:
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
ivorythumper
Oct 29 2011, 11:17 AM
So all those really wealthy people produced all that wealth without having to hire anyone [in the US]? Pretty amazing. :clap: :clap: :clap:
Yes (see modification to your original statement above) ... it's a form of "improved/increased productivity."
After all, "productivity" is merely [value of] production divided by head count.

There are many reasons why more wealth can be produced without improving the employment rate.

Employment rate is merely # of people employed divided by total # of people. Because total # of people has increased since the beginning of a measurement period (e.g., pre "great recession"), even if every one who has lost their job since regains his job and produces as much as he has before, that would still only bring the # of people employed (the numerator) back to even. But because the total # of people (the denominator) has increased, the employment rate would be lower, and the unemployment rate (1 - employment rate) would be higher than pre "great recession" number.

Other possibilities are automation and shifting employment elsewhere (e.g., overseas outsourcing). Apple, Inc., for example, created vast wealth through its portable computing products, but even if they ship 10X more units of products, most of that would be assembled in China using parts produced in highly automated factories outside the US. The vast majority of incremental employment attributable to Apple Inc.'s portable computing products would occur outside the US and do little to improve the US' domestic employment rate.

There are more possibilities still ... the increased valuation of commodities and natural resources, and financial alchemy, for examples, that can create significant wealth without significantly increasing headcount. These are left as exercises for the readers to explore.
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Copper
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Shortstop
Axtremus
Oct 29 2011, 11:14 AM

The US GDP has set a new record, an all time high, under the Obama administration.

Gee, that Obama administration is swell.

I just got an invitation to get a VISA Black card. The literature says it puts me in the 1%.

Oh the shame.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
I think blacks make up more like 10-15%.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Copper
Oct 29 2011, 11:53 AM
Axtremus
Oct 29 2011, 11:14 AM

The US GDP has set a new record, an all time high, under the Obama administration.

Gee, that Obama administration is swell.
Yes, glad to see you acknowledging that fact.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Axtremus
Oct 29 2011, 11:42 AM
ivorythumper
Oct 29 2011, 11:17 AM
So all those really wealthy people produced all that wealth without having to hire anyone [in the US]? Pretty amazing. :clap: :clap: :clap:
Yes (see modification to your original statement above) ... it's a form of "improved/increased productivity."
So Gross Domestic Product includes goods manufactured abroad?

That makes it seems like a meaningless term, and the idea that "So why the heck unemployment rate is still high and many people still are (or feel) "poor" or "poorer than before" in the US. Because most of the gain went to the wealthiest segment of the population (e.g., the richest 1%)." is profoundly misplaced.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
ivorythumper
Oct 29 2011, 12:10 PM
Axtremus
Oct 29 2011, 11:42 AM
ivorythumper
Oct 29 2011, 11:17 AM
So all those really wealthy people produced all that wealth without having to hire anyone [in the US]? Pretty amazing. :clap: :clap: :clap:
Yes (see modification to your original statement above) ... it's a form of "improved/increased productivity."
So Gross Domestic Product includes goods manufactured abroad?

That makes it seems like a meaningless term, and the idea that "So why the heck unemployment rate is still high and many people still are (or feel) "poor" or "poorer than before" in the US. Because most of the gain went to the wealthiest segment of the population (e.g., the richest 1%)." is profoundly misplaced.
You are incorrect to assume that products manufactured abroad does not factor into the Gross Domestic Product.

Gross Domestic Product includes corporate profits made from goods sold domestically, some of such goods which may have been manufactured (or otherwise received value-add) abroad (e.g., the aforementioned Apple Inc.'s mobile computing products).

Example: Apple Inc. may spend $100M making gadgets in China and importing them into the US, then subsequently sell those gadgets in the US for $200M. The difference, $100M, then goes into the GDP as the corporation's profit and domestic expenses (distribution/marketing costs).

That's one way a lot of "domestic wealth" can be "created" without hiring many domestic workers.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Axtremus
Oct 30 2011, 04:22 AM
ivorythumper
Oct 29 2011, 12:10 PM
Axtremus
Oct 29 2011, 11:42 AM
ivorythumper
Oct 29 2011, 11:17 AM
So all those really wealthy people produced all that wealth without having to hire anyone [in the US]? Pretty amazing. :clap: :clap: :clap:
Yes (see modification to your original statement above) ... it's a form of "improved/increased productivity."
So Gross Domestic Product includes goods manufactured abroad?

That makes it seems like a meaningless term, and the idea that "So why the heck unemployment rate is still high and many people still are (or feel) "poor" or "poorer than before" in the US. Because most of the gain went to the wealthiest segment of the population (e.g., the richest 1%)." is profoundly misplaced.
You are incorrect to assume that products manufactured abroad does not factor into the Gross Domestic Product.

Gross Domestic Product includes corporate profits made from goods sold domestically, some of such goods which may have been manufactured (or otherwise received value-add) abroad (e.g., the aforementioned Apple Inc.'s mobile computing products).

Example: Apple Inc. may spend $100M making gadgets in China and importing them into the US, then subsequently sell those gadgets in the US for $200M. The difference, $100M, then goes into the GDP as the corporation's profit and domestic expenses (distribution/marketing costs).

That's one way a lot of "domestic wealth" can be "created" without hiring many domestic workers.
I did not assume that the term does not include this, I only pointed out the meaningless of the term for discussion.

Your first post argued "As measured by the GDP, the US economy has recovered from the "great recession."

That is meaningless if wealth status as measurable by GDP includes generated wealth that is not domestic.

You seem oblivious to the fact that "as measured by GDP", it cannot be concluded that "the US economy has recovered from the "great recession."

So perhaps you should go back and start inserting words into your own quotes instead of other people's.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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1hp
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Fulla-Carp

I think I understand Ax's logic. Apple is one of those bad corporations that the OW types are making all the fuss about.

There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those that understand binary and................
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