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| Question about Student Loan Reform; ...recently enacted by Obama | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 27 2011, 06:14 AM (723 Views) | |
| The 89th Key | Oct 27 2011, 06:14 AM Post #1 |
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We can all agree (especially P*D!) that the cost of college has grown disproportionately to the rest of the economy, and that it can be incredibly expensive to go to college. However...am I correctly reading (watching/listening) this? Basically...you only have to pay up to 10% of your income towards your student loan and after 20 years (or 10 years if you are a teacher or nurse) the BALANCE of your debt is forgiven??? Does that mean, once again, OUR tax dollars are being spent on forgiving the debt of others? Am I missing something? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqJJzrFPb84 |
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| Copper | Oct 27 2011, 06:16 AM Post #2 |
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Shortstop
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There is an election next year. Mr. Obama would like these debtors to vote for him. Your taxes will buy these votes. |
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The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
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| jon-nyc | Oct 27 2011, 06:36 AM Post #3 |
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Cheers
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That seems like what it is. Seems directionally wrong - introducing a massive agency problem that the University system will happily exploit. Or perhaps continue to exploit. |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| The 89th Key | Oct 27 2011, 06:39 AM Post #4 |
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Copper - I agree. Jon - yeah, it seems this is a bandaid fix to a bigger problem. Our tax money is being used to pay off the debts of others, while the source of the actual problem (the actual cost of college) isn't being addressed. |
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| Luke's Dad | Oct 27 2011, 06:42 AM Post #5 |
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Emperor Pengin
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Great. I'll drop out of the work force and go back to school. What degree should I get to become a lobbyist? |
| The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it. | |
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| Axtremus | Oct 27 2011, 06:46 AM Post #6 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Compared to current law (source: http://money.brevardtimes.com/2011/10/obama-proposes-student-loan-forgiveness.html ): "Current law allows borrowers to limit their loan payments to 15 percent of their discretionary income and forgives all remaining debt after 25 years. However, few students know about this option. Students can find out if they are currently eligible for IBR at www.studentaid.ed.gov/ibr . " It's not like tax dollars have not been used to "forgive" student loans before. They have, and will continue to be limited to federal student loans. However, there's also this claim as reported by the article linked to above: "... And we can do it at no cost to the taxpayer,” said U.S. Secretary of Education Arne Duncan. ... According to the Obama Administration, these changes carry no additional cost to taxpayers." I don't know how that works. ![]() It's also not clear to me whether the payment cap and forgiveness time limit also applies to non-federal student debt. |
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| Axtremus | Oct 27 2011, 06:48 AM Post #7 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I'd like to see you try. Go ahead, I dare you to accept federal government ![]() (BTW, keep in mind that the new rules won't go into effect until 2014 ... so start then.) |
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| George K | Oct 27 2011, 07:58 AM Post #8 |
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Finally
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Obviously, you have not been paying attention for the last 3 years.
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| Luke's Dad | Oct 27 2011, 08:01 AM Post #9 |
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Emperor Pengin
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I read an analysis that said this saves young people an average of $10.00 a month. |
| The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it. | |
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| George K | Oct 27 2011, 09:35 AM Post #10 |
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Finally
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http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/10/obamas-studentloan-order-saves-the-average-grad-less-than-10-a-month/247411/ Another thing: Has this legislation been presented to Congress, you know, the folks that hold the purse strings of the government, or is he doing it by (cough, cough) executive order? |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| Kincaid | Oct 27 2011, 09:49 AM Post #11 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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As I understand it this is something the Administration can do unilaterally. I suppose Congress could pass a law to squelch it, but that probably will have to wait until after the elections. Anyway, I was surprised to hear the proprosal's "escape clause" and that there was already an existing one in place. All student loan debt that I am aware of is structured for payback in 10 years. I suppose if you fail to pay it back and then seek forgiveness of the debt in 25 years you are only screwing up your own credit. I also would suppose that the overall effect of taxes being sucked up to pay for the program is not really any different from any student loan borrower that defaults on their loans. But seriously, we should at least make them go into the military or the Peace Corps in order to give something back. Edited by Kincaid, Oct 27 2011, 09:50 AM.
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| Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006. | |
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| RosemaryTwo | Oct 27 2011, 09:53 AM Post #12 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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This doesn't seem like it should be in the realm of executive power. It doesn't seem fair to those who pay for their children's college outright; those who work through college to pay their own tuition' or those who take an extra job after college to pay back their loans. |
| "Perhaps the thing to do is just to let stupid run its course." Aqua | |
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| jon-nyc | Oct 27 2011, 10:00 AM Post #13 |
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Cheers
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It isn't, apparently it was a law passed in 2010. |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| jon-nyc | Oct 27 2011, 10:01 AM Post #14 |
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Cheers
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http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/26/us/politics/26loans.html |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| jon-nyc | Oct 27 2011, 10:04 AM Post #15 |
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Cheers
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Apparently the same law ended what was in effect a subsidy to banks to give out student loans. So it must net out. |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| Copper | Oct 27 2011, 10:05 AM Post #16 |
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Shortstop
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Yes, those greedy banks were charging outrageous rates to process the loans. We will save billions in fees by forgiving all the debt. |
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The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
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| jon-nyc | Oct 27 2011, 10:07 AM Post #17 |
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Cheers
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Actually they were charging very low rates and had generous deferment rules. But we picked up the tab for that. |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| Horace | Oct 27 2011, 11:53 AM Post #18 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Great, more and more mediocre minds will stay in school forever, learning nothing of any value, wasting their lives and other people's money in a socially acceptable and condoned manner. |
| As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good? | |
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| Horace | Oct 27 2011, 12:01 PM Post #19 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Another thing, along with the small matter of pensions, that we can look forward to teachers unions conveniently forgetting when they provide data about how little they are paid compared to everybody else. |
| As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good? | |
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| Luke's Dad | Oct 27 2011, 12:32 PM Post #20 |
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Emperor Pengin
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| The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it. | |
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| Kincaid | Oct 27 2011, 01:34 PM Post #21 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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There is actually an ongoing Federal program that teachers can access for up to $5k toward their student loans. I helped my wife apply for it but turned out it only works for teachers that have taught a few years or less. The program is intended to keep teachers in the profession that are otherwise being pulled into the private sector to make more money to pay back student loan debt. My wife had worked too long, so I guess they figure she's not likely to bolt now. |
| Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006. | |
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| Dan | Oct 27 2011, 03:01 PM Post #22 |
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Senior Carp
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The 10 year repayment plan is somewhat variable. My repayment plan was 10 years. My wife's plan is either 15 or 20 years, I forget which and don't want to look it up right now. She ended up with almost 100K in loans to get her PA degree. She got the degree in 2002. I wonder if we can cancel the debt next year? |
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| Aqua Letifer | Oct 27 2011, 07:26 PM Post #23 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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That's what we here in the perpetual education for mediocre minds business call "all kinds of a fallacy." If mediocre minds are on the increase in our country's university programs, then we have poor admissions criteria (likely due to financial expectations from a necessary minimum of incoming students) to blame. Loans don't help idiots get into college, it helps qualified students pay for college. If you have a problem with the definition of "qualified," then Barry's not the person to which you should direct your complaints. And if you don't mind I'd like some clarification on your "learning nothing of any value" comment. |
| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| Aqua Letifer | Oct 27 2011, 07:34 PM Post #24 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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As to the issue at hand, it's been a very recent change that the federal government is now in total control of the loans process. It used to be, they would do all but handle the money transfers; that process was still reserved for the banks. In just the past year or two, the Obama administration took out what remains of the middle man and now they handle and disperse the money, in addition to filing the paperwork. I see some benefit in this in particular (I'll get to 89th's post in a moment, which is a separate issue). As compared to other loan types, I think student loans are a pretty safe bet. Increases in salary are directly proportional to level of degree obtained, from the GRE level all the way up to a Master's. If student loans are a comparatively low risk, it would make sense for one entity, private or otherwise, to run the program, since it could then offer slightly lower rates overall than a bank, which handles all kinds of other more risky investments. It makes the process more affordable to students, and still requires no investment on the part of the taxpayer since with the interest acquired through repayment, the program pays for itself. This new thing 89th posted appears to **** all of that up. Though I may benefit from such a program, it's going completely the wrong direction. |
| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| Horace | Oct 27 2011, 08:05 PM Post #25 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Seems like a feedback loop to me. The more people who can afford college, the more people colleges will let in. There'll never be any shortage of excuses to lower standards, what with all the problems we have letting great minds go to waste in our high schools due to under-funding of teacher pensions and computer labs and such. All we have to do is let more and more people in, statistically guaranteeing that the meat of the human bell curve has access to and is processed through "higher education". If "higher education" has to lower its own standard to accommodate that, so be it - the important thing is that as many people as possible spend years of their lives and 10s of thousands of other people's dollars being processed through it, regardless of what "it" actually is. "Learning nothing of any value" was hyperbole, but it strikes me that, from a societal perspective, the value of what we learn in university is never objectively compared against the price we pay to learn it. (Note that this is a different question than "do people with degrees make more money, statistically.") Since as a society we're expected more and more to pay for everybody else's learning, that seems like an important question to at least ask if not answer. I hope we get to that point eventually. |
| As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good? | |
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4:16 PM Jul 10