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| Be Ye Not Gay | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 25 2011, 05:32 PM (3,718 Views) | |
| Renauda | Oct 26 2011, 03:46 PM Post #51 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I saw an ad on TV about that. Perhaps they should try Jenny. |
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| Mikhailoh | Oct 26 2011, 03:59 PM Post #52 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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Or Jeni... ![]() |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| jon-nyc | Oct 26 2011, 04:01 PM Post #53 |
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Cheers
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His logic doesn't stand even if his conclusion is correct. No conclusion can be drawn about the origins of homosexuality from the fact that some people who are brought up to feel guilt and shame about homosexuality later become practicing heterosexuals. You could imagine a possible world where homosexuality is a choice and some people abandon it out of guilt and shame. You could imagine a possible world where it is genetic and some people abandon it out of guilt and shame. You could imagine a possible world where its congenital and some people abandon it out of guilt and shame. |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| ivorythumper | Oct 26 2011, 04:56 PM Post #54 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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If it congenital/genetic, I don't see how it can be abandoned for any reason. The only thing that could modify is the behavior -- whether to act on it -- not the same sex attraction itself. |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| Horace | Oct 26 2011, 05:12 PM Post #55 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I only skimmed, but the study seemed to only be tracking behavior and maybe self-reported orientation. Both those things can easily trump genetic predisposition given enough motivation. |
| As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good? | |
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| Jolly | Oct 26 2011, 05:13 PM Post #56 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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Face it, the study has nothing to do with the Baptist Press. The study is published in the Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy, Volume 37. |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| Horace | Oct 26 2011, 05:13 PM Post #57 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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only lucky if it's a heterosexual aardvaark though. |
| As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good? | |
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| jon-nyc | Oct 26 2011, 05:18 PM Post #58 |
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Cheers
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Yeah, you'd only ever have evidence of the behavior. Re 'abandoned for any reason' - there is certainly plenty of contra evidence in the world of heterosexuals, visit a prison or a Navy ship. |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| jon-nyc | Oct 26 2011, 05:20 PM Post #59 |
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Cheers
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Whatever, you didn't post an article from the Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy, you posted a piece from the Baptist Press. But to reiterate my point, the study is pretty damn irrelevant to the whole nature vs. nurture argument, regardless of where it gets published. |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| Jolly | Oct 26 2011, 05:20 PM Post #60 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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Well, this Baptist learned his genetics in college and although I'm pretty rusty, I still get to knock through trofiles, dna and rna anylysis, and some genetic therapy oligonuceotide stuff from time to time. We're talking basic Medellian stuff here...recessive and dominant, possibly even dominant negative. But it ain't rocket surgery. It's simple - show me the gay gene. Show me how it is gentically coded and based. Then show me how biology trumps behavior, or vice-versa. |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| Jolly | Oct 26 2011, 05:22 PM Post #61 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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The second sentence in my reply was a direct copy from the BP article. It is what the article is based on. Have you become so biased that the mere mention of the word Baptist negates any truth the article may contain? If you'd like to read the original study, I'm sure you can, for a fee. |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| jon-nyc | Oct 26 2011, 05:24 PM Post #62 |
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Cheers
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Yeah, and my point stands unscathed. The study has zero relevance to the nature v nurture debate. No publication venue will change that simple fact. |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| Jolly | Oct 26 2011, 05:26 PM Post #63 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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Predisposition? I thought the argument was that you are either gay, or you are not? You want to base tax policy and civil law on predispositions? |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| Jolly | Oct 26 2011, 05:28 PM Post #64 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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Zero relevance? That's your opinion. That's not the outcome of the study. |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| jon-nyc | Oct 26 2011, 05:32 PM Post #65 |
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Cheers
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The outcome of the study has no bearing on the origins of sexual behavior. It simply tells us that a smallish minority of guilt ridden christian homosexuals will change their behavior after undergoing some (further) religious indoctrination. But it tells us not a thing about the origin of the homosexual behavior they feel so guilty about. Not a thing. |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| Horace | Oct 26 2011, 05:32 PM Post #66 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I thought the argument was whether there existed a genetic predisposition. I wasn't aware that anybody thought that, a figurative gun to someone's head, they couldn't change their behavior to go against their predispositions. |
| As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good? | |
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| jon-nyc | Oct 26 2011, 05:33 PM Post #67 |
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Cheers
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Clearly no gun is necessary, as prison, boarding school, and navy ship experience demonstrates. |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| Jolly | Oct 26 2011, 05:35 PM Post #68 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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My, what a silly statement. |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| jon-nyc | Oct 26 2011, 05:36 PM Post #69 |
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Cheers
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Wow, what a solid argument, there, Jolly. I am vanquished. |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| Jolly | Oct 26 2011, 05:40 PM Post #70 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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No, I'm just laughing at you. Your position is that if one places a person with gay tendencies in any type of same sex situation, they start chasing people down the hallways with their tongue hanging out. That's just silly. |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| jon-nyc | Oct 26 2011, 05:44 PM Post #71 |
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Cheers
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Actually that's not my position. At all. Rather my point is that sexual behavior is heavily influenced by circumstance. Because of that, its hard to extrapolate truths about genetic or congenital influences from behavior changes, especially behavior changes of a small minority of subjects in a special circumstance. |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| Jolly | Oct 26 2011, 05:45 PM Post #72 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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So why the red herring of close same sex contact? |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| jon-nyc | Oct 26 2011, 05:46 PM Post #73 |
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Cheers
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oops - you caught me mid-edit. re-read the post. |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| ivorythumper | Oct 26 2011, 10:00 PM Post #74 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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Rather off point, Jon. We are talking about a fundamental disposition of same sex attraction to the exclusion of heterosexual attraction. Not opportunistic homosexuality when women are unavailable. Your argument is not holding together and you seem to be grasping at straws. |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| jon-nyc | Oct 27 2011, 02:02 AM Post #75 |
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Cheers
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On the contrary - no one has yet put forward a convincing argument as to how the origin of homosexual behavior can be determined from the fact that a small minority of religious homosexuals who attempt to change their behavior are successful in doing so. If you believe that statement is incorrect, please point out which post provides the argument, or feel free to summarize it yourself. |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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