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Be Ye Not Gay
Topic Started: Oct 25 2011, 05:32 PM (3,719 Views)
jon-nyc
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Cheers
It doesn't, and I didn't say it did. On the contrary, I said it sheds no light on the subject.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Renauda
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HOLY CARP!!!
John D'Oh
Oct 26 2011, 08:39 AM
They should run a survey to determine whether religious belief is curable, or whether it's genetic. After all, a large number of people appear to have similar religous beliefs to their parents.
Indeed. It's always sad when one hears that orthodox parents discover their child to be heterodox.
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Copper
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Shortstop
Mikhailoh
Oct 26 2011, 07:54 AM
You can be bigoted for something too, apple. Certainly by the standard you set.

I wouldn't mind being bigoted about this, but I still have no idea how to identify a gay person.

I know there are some people here who claim to be gay, but how can you prove it?

What is the legal definition?
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Renauda
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HOLY CARP!!!
Copper
Oct 26 2011, 10:47 AM
I wouldn't mind being bigoted about this, but I still have no idea how to identify a gay person.

I know there are some people here who claim to be gay, but how can you prove it?

What is the legal definition?
Posted Image

Someday I'm gonna have to have a long talk with that boy.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
jon-nyc
Oct 26 2011, 09:01 AM
It doesn't, and I didn't say it did. On the contrary, I said it sheds no light on the subject.
Then how do you get to "By your logic the mere existence of gay people would prove that heterosexuality is not congenital"?
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
He made the argument that a one time homosexual who later became hetero disproved congenital or genetic origin of homosexuality. By the same logic a one time heterosexual who later became homosexual would disprove congenital or genetic origin of heterosexuality.

Don't misunderstand - I think the logic is poor. I'm just applying his logic to the opposit case to help demonstrate its absurdity.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Renauda
Oct 26 2011, 09:08 AM
John D'Oh
Oct 26 2011, 08:39 AM
They should run a survey to determine whether religious belief is curable, or whether it's genetic. After all, a large number of people appear to have similar religous beliefs to their parents.
Indeed. It's always sad when one hears that orthodox parents discover their child to be heterodox.
If you cross the aisle in my country you're given a fairly serious talking to.

[Strong Northern accent]

'Well, 'ee might be a poofter, but at least he don't go t' bloody pay-pissed church!'
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Renauda
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HOLY CARP!!!
John D'Oh
Oct 26 2011, 11:36 AM
'Well, 'ee might be a poofter, but at least he don't go t' bloody pay-pissed church!'
Funny you mention that because up north this way we'd say "....at least he didn't join of those effin' bible thumping hell fire and damnation PayPal churches run out of the states".
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
jon-nyc
Oct 26 2011, 11:26 AM
He made the argument that a one time homosexual who later became hetero disproved congenital or genetic origin of homosexuality. By the same logic a one time heterosexual who later became homosexual would disprove congenital or genetic origin of heterosexuality.

Don't misunderstand - I think the logic is poor. I'm just applying his logic to the opposit case to help demonstrate its absurdity.
So...if I breed a mare to a stallion, I should expect an aardvark?
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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apple
one of the angels
you'd be lucky to get an aardvaark
it behooves me to behold
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Jolly
Oct 26 2011, 12:30 PM
jon-nyc
Oct 26 2011, 11:26 AM
He made the argument that a one time homosexual who later became hetero disproved congenital or genetic origin of homosexuality. By the same logic a one time heterosexual who later became homosexual would disprove congenital or genetic origin of heterosexuality.

Don't misunderstand - I think the logic is poor. I'm just applying his logic to the opposit case to help demonstrate its absurdity.
So...if I breed a mare to a stallion, I should expect an aardvark?
Both my parents have brown eyes. My brother's eyes are blue.

The argument put forward would seem to indicate a very simplistic understanding of hereditary traits.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Dan
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Senior Carp
I've always figured there was a distribution of homosexual behavior, just like there's a distribution of virtually everything else. I have no idea where under the bell curve any of these groupings would fit, other than a strong feeling that "hetero - living a hetro lifestyle" is gotta be the center of the distribution. Consider some groupings along these lines:

Homosexual - born that way, but celibate
Homosexual - born that way, living that lifestyle
Homosexual - born that way, but living a heterosexual lifestyle
Heterosexual - born that way, but living a homosexual lifestyle
Heterosexual - born that way, living that lifestyle

There are undoubtedly other categories that could be added. (In fact, I think there could be a whole list of British deviations! ;-) )

But you get the picture. As of right now, there is no method I know of to identify a homosexual other than their self-identification with that group. Thus a study that found some people able to shift from one of these groups to another proves nothing IMO. A study which is conducted by a clearly biased organization proves less than nothing.
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
Jolly
Oct 26 2011, 12:30 PM
jon-nyc
Oct 26 2011, 11:26 AM
He made the argument that a one time homosexual who later became hetero disproved congenital or genetic origin of homosexuality. By the same logic a one time heterosexual who later became homosexual would disprove congenital or genetic origin of heterosexuality.

Don't misunderstand - I think the logic is poor. I'm just applying his logic to the opposit case to help demonstrate its absurdity.
So...if I breed a mare to a stallion, I should expect an aardvark?
That wasn't your argument, was it. And I don't see how that argument is advanced by the study you referenced either.

Face it, that Baptist Press piece was pretty damn irrelevant to the whole nature v nurture debate.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Renauda
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HOLY CARP!!!
apple
Oct 26 2011, 12:45 PM
you'd be lucky to get an aardvaark
....and if it were to happen I not sure whether it would considered a miracle either.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
John D'Oh
Oct 26 2011, 12:57 PM
Jolly
Oct 26 2011, 12:30 PM
jon-nyc
Oct 26 2011, 11:26 AM
He made the argument that a one time homosexual who later became hetero disproved congenital or genetic origin of homosexuality. By the same logic a one time heterosexual who later became homosexual would disprove congenital or genetic origin of heterosexuality.

Don't misunderstand - I think the logic is poor. I'm just applying his logic to the opposit case to help demonstrate its absurdity.
So...if I breed a mare to a stallion, I should expect an aardvark?
Both my parents have brown eyes. My brother's eyes are blue.

The argument put forward would seem to indicate a very simplistic understanding of hereditary traits.
It's obvious. Your brother belongs, as we used to say, to the milkman.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
John's absolutely correct. M&M's and I both have blue eyes, but take a look at Luke's closeup

Posted Image

Explain that.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Can't fool me. Dat's Gary Coleman.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Joking aside, we learned about recessive genes in 11th grade. I guess it hasn't made it as far as Baptist Training school.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Luke's Dad
Oct 26 2011, 02:04 PM
John's absolutely correct. M&M's and I both have blue eyes, but take a look at Luke's closeup

Posted Image

Explain that.
Of course, it does reminds me of the Ivorythumper classic 'Are you the Chocolate Man?'. :lol2:
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
Mikhailoh
Oct 26 2011, 02:07 PM
Can't fool me. Dat's Gary Coleman.
Apparantly you can as that's not Gary Coleman, that's Emmanuel Lewis. :tongue:
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
John D'Oh
Oct 26 2011, 02:07 PM
Joking aside, we learned about recessive genes in 11th grade. I guess it hasn't made it as far as Baptist Training school.
Is that directed towards Jolly or towards the study? I didn't see where recessive genes would have anything to do with the study.

One question though is whether recessive genes would be capable of being propogated through how many thousands of generations. especially when the gene itself would actively work against procreation.

Sorry. I don't buy the "born that way" argument. The human body will react the same way to whatever the source of the stimulation. It's what happens between the ears that determines the rest.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Luke's Dad
Oct 26 2011, 02:56 PM
Mikhailoh
Oct 26 2011, 02:07 PM
Can't fool me. Dat's Gary Coleman.
Apparantly you can as that's not Gary Coleman, that's Emmanuel Lewis. :tongue:
They all look alike to me.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
Dat's racialtastic!
Edited by Luke's Dad, Oct 26 2011, 03:13 PM.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
jon-nyc
Oct 26 2011, 11:26 AM
He made the argument that a one time homosexual who later became hetero disproved congenital or genetic origin of homosexuality. By the same logic a one time heterosexual who later became homosexual would disprove congenital or genetic origin of heterosexuality.

Don't misunderstand - I think the logic is poor. I'm just applying his logic to the opposit case to help demonstrate its absurdity.
But it wouldn't necessarily. If heterosexuality really is the natural condition for all human beings, and homosexuality is an acquired aberration (a "disordered appetite" or such that is the result of a developmental issue), then his logic stands.

The problem is that it becomes very difficult to invert that-- insisting on the possibility that homosexuality is the natural condition and heterosexuality is the acquired aberration -- which is what the same logic would argue.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Mikhailoh
Oct 26 2011, 02:08 PM
Of course, it does reminds me of the Ivorythumper classic 'Are you the Chocolate Man?'. :lol2:
:lol2: :lol2:
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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