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Finally a deal?
Topic Started: Jul 31 2011, 03:59 PM (346 Views)
jon-nyc
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Cheers
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0711/60344.html

In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
More here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/31/debt-ceiling-deal-reached_n_905841.html

(h/t Axtremus)
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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The 89th Key
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Translation:

- no tax hikes (GOP win)
- major cut spending (GOP win)
- debt ceiling up through 2012 election (Obama win)

2-1 victory for the grand old party
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
The 89th Key
Jul 31 2011, 05:10 PM
Translation:

- no tax hikes (GOP win)
- major cut spending (GOP win)
- debt ceiling up through 2012 election (Obama win)
- taxes on the table for round 2 (Obama win)

2-2.
FIFY.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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The 89th Key
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Safe from default!

Posted Image
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Copper
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Shortstop

I can't imagine that anyone could consider raising taxes and increasing the debt a win for anyone.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Steve Miller
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Bull-Carp
Copper
Jul 31 2011, 05:31 PM
I can't imagine that anyone could consider raising taxes and increasing the debt a win for anyone.
Ditto cutting spending during a recession.
Wag more
Bark less
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Steve Miller
Jul 31 2011, 05:55 PM
Copper
Jul 31 2011, 05:31 PM
I can't imagine that anyone could consider raising taxes and increasing the debt a win for anyone.
Ditto cutting spending during a recession.
Well, there's spending and spending like a drunken sailor...
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Copper
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Shortstop
Steve Miller
Jul 31 2011, 05:55 PM
Copper
Jul 31 2011, 05:31 PM
I can't imagine that anyone could consider raising taxes and increasing the debt a win for anyone.
Ditto cutting spending during a recession.

Before, during, after, makes no difference.

Spending more than you have, with no plan to change is just plain wrong.

I guess it would be OK if you had no future or no children.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
It just boggles the mind to think that people actually think it's good to keep spending yourself into bankruptcy because the economy is tanking - because we're spending ourselves into bankruptcy. I just cannot for the life of me understand how anyone could say that with a straight face.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
jon-nyc
Jul 31 2011, 05:11 PM
The 89th Key
Jul 31 2011, 05:10 PM
Translation:

- no tax hikes (GOP win)
- major cut spending (GOP win)
- debt ceiling up through 2012 election (Obama win)
- taxes on the table for round 2 (Obama win)

2-2.
FIFY.
It's that kind of thinking, though, that makes us close to setting a new precedent in not paying the loans back in time. "Score one for the GOP/Obama" does nothing for the country, the debt crisis or anyone else.

I'm with Copper. How in the hell is this good news, we still don't have our **** straight.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Could anybody explain to me how to interpret these cuts?

If they say they want to cut $1T in the next decade, what does this mean? Does this mean that they have to cut the budget by about $100B, such that they have cumulated $1T in savings by 2021? Or does it mean that they want to cut the yearly budget by $1T until 2021, such that they'll end up saving $1T per year? I also wonder how they can make such plans for such long periods of time - there'll be votes, other presidents, other congress etc.- how can they be sure that they'll honor today's plans?
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
Klaus
Aug 1 2011, 12:22 AM
Could anybody explain to me how to interpret these cuts?

If they say they want to cut $1T in the next decade, what does this mean? Does this mean that they have to cut the budget by about $100B, such that they have cumulated $1T in savings by 2021? Or does it mean that they want to cut the yearly budget by $1T until 2021, such that they'll end up saving $1T per year?
The former. They measure 10 year impact of large policy-changing bills like this. (same with tax cuts and increases)


Quote:
 
I also wonder how they can make such plans for such long periods of time - there'll be votes, other presidents, other congress etc.- how can they be sure that they'll honor today's plans?


They can't, but big policy shifts tend to have an inertia of their own. But to your point, a future government could change tack on this.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
jon-nyc
Aug 1 2011, 01:58 AM
Klaus
Aug 1 2011, 12:22 AM
Could anybody explain to me how to interpret these cuts?

If they say they want to cut $1T in the next decade, what does this mean? Does this mean that they have to cut the budget by about $100B, such that they have cumulated $1T in savings by 2021? Or does it mean that they want to cut the yearly budget by $1T until 2021, such that they'll end up saving $1T per year?
The former. They measure 10 year impact of large policy-changing bills like this. (same with tax cuts and increases)
But then the cuts do not seem to be so significant. The deficit in 2011 is about $1.5T. Reducing it by $100B or even $250B, as required for the second part of the deal, still leaves a deficit of at least $1.25T per year, which is still much too high. Wouldn't they have to cut expenses (and/or increase taxes) by about $1T per year to make the budget economically sustainable?
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
Depends on a lot of things. First of all, when the economy comes out of recession a lot of that 1T deficit goes away by itself. Recession means lower revenues and higher automatic outlays that inversely correlate with GDP (Medicaid for poor, unemployment, etc).

The other side of this is few economists think the economic shock of instant budget balance would be good for the economy. It would certainly be bad for politicians, since it would require cutting Medicare and Social Security materially in the short term.


But to your point, last night's deal by itself does not put on on tract for a balanced budget. However, if we stick to the formula that each debt ceiling increase requires a commensurate reduction in the deficit, then we will necessarily balance within 10 years.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Nobody's Sock
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Fulla-Carp
Aqua Letifer
Jul 31 2011, 07:16 PM
jon-nyc
Jul 31 2011, 05:11 PM
The 89th Key
Jul 31 2011, 05:10 PM
Translation:

- no tax hikes (GOP win)
- major cut spending (GOP win)
- debt ceiling up through 2012 election (Obama win)
- taxes on the table for round 2 (Obama win)

2-2.
FIFY.
It's that kind of thinking, though, that makes us close to setting a new precedent in not paying the loans back in time. "Score one for the GOP/Obama" does nothing for the country, the debt crisis or anyone else.

I'm with Copper. How in the hell is this good news, we still don't have our **** straight.
And I'm with Aqua here. It's that kind of "us vs. them" thinking that plays into the "one party" government's hands.

Final score: Citizens of the US: 0-1.

"Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known."
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