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My apology to Dewey; and the rest of you as well
Topic Started: Jul 27 2011, 11:53 AM (416 Views)
Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Dewey, I went too far, and I apologize.

The strain between us has bothered me for a long long time, some reasons I'll mention, some I'll just keep to myself. You and I have been good friends for years, and whether you accept my apology or not, I want you to know that I am convinced, and always have been, that you are a good man, with a good heart, and with good intentions. I disagree with you on the theology that you have come to embrace, strenuously in fact. But I do not hold any ill feelings toward you personally.

I make my living being hard nosed. I deal with all sorts of people, in all sorts of situations, all of them trying to get over on the other one at some level or another. I have to be able to dig straight to the core of things quickly, and I have to make sure the people I'm dealing with know who's in charge. I try to shed that when I'm not working, but sometimes it's hard. I also deal with a lot of heart wrenching situations similar in a way to what you deal with. Bringing clothes, food, shelter, and safety to a little girl who has been raped by her own father for instance, doesn't exactly leave me in a good humor. But that's no excuse for being an ass to you just because I'm really wanting to drag that son of a bitch into the street and beat him to a pulp.

This forum is made up of people with three basic viewpoints on God: Those who believe in God, those who don't but don't care if others do, and those who view mocking both God and those who believe in God as sport. I should not have discussed some of the things I discussed here publicly, for two reasons: some here don't understand what's being discussed and the discussion heads down too many rabbit trails, people start choosing sides, and it just makes things worse, and 2, it wasn't respectful to you.

I apologize. I'd like for the two of us to try and rebuild our friendship, if you're willing. I still don't agree with you on the issues we've argued about, but we've both had our say, and I would like to fix the damage it caused and move on. I always valued your friendship, and I am not happy at all at the harm that's been done. So for my part in it, please forgive me.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Larry, have I ever told you that you are a butthead with a good heart?
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brenda
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..............
You're a good man, Larry. :hug:
“Weeds are flowers, too, once you get to know them.”
~A.A. Milne
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
kenny
Jul 27 2011, 11:56 AM
Larry, have I ever told you that you are a butthead with a good heart?
Don't talk to me about butts, Kenny........




:tongue:
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Catraoine
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Junior Carp
What I would like to add is that I know how hard it can be at times to leave 'work' at work...the emotional toll when in siutations you describe Larry are just about impossible to put on a shelve at times...I know as I experience that at times....that just makes us human !
Hatred is often felt by those that cannot understand why you are so loved.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
I think we've all said things online that we would be unlikely to say in person. I know I have, and I try very hard to guard against doing it again. It is rather the nature of the medium.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Red Rice
HOLY CARP!!!
Mikhailoh
Jul 27 2011, 07:15 PM
I think we've all said things online that we would be unlikely to say in person. I know I have, and I try very hard to guard against doing it again. It is rather the nature of the medium.
Sez you, @sshole.







:tongue:




Civilisation, I vaguely realized then - and subsequent observation has confirmed the view - could not progress that way. It must have a greater guiding principle to survive. To treat it as a carcase off which each man tears as much as he can for himself, is to stand convicted a brute, fit for nothing better than a jungle existence, which is a death-struggle, leading nowhither. I did not believe that was the human destiny, for Man individually was sane and reasonable, only collectively a fool.

I hope the gunner of that Hun two-seater shot him clean, bullet to heart, and that his plane, on fire, fell like a meteor through the sky he loved. Since he had to end, I hope he ended so. But, oh, the waste! The loss!

- Cecil Lewis
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
Larry, the differences between us have nothing to do with being forgiven. I have forgiven you for the things you've said all along. Even if I didn't feel like it or want to, I have to forgive, in recognition that I have been forgiven of much worse, by both God and other people. I don't hold any ill will or lack of forgiveness toward you, and I hope that you would forgive me for the strongest of responses I've given to your comments as this has been going on.

I disagree with you that there are only three types of people here, regarding beliefs about God. Just looking at those who believe in God, there are Christians, Jews, at least one Muslim (who wishes to, and will, remain anonymous), and I suspect one or two other faiths are also represented here, as well as those who are "Spiritual But Not Religious." Each of the people in these various categories believe in God, but those beliefs are very different. Even narrowing the focus to the Christians - look at you, me, IT, Jolly, Kincaid, Luke's Dad, KB, and brenda, just as a sampling. Each of us believes not only in God, but also professes faith in Jesus as God incarnate and their Lord and Savior. And yet, everyone in even that small sampling has a different take on what the implications of that Lordship are; how that plays out in our lives and how to understand the important theological points of our faith. And every one of us is trying, in good faith, to be as true to our faith as we are guided by our conscience, via the Holy Spirit.

Since each of us is being guided by the same Spirit, and still coming up with different opinions, we have to accept that each of us brings something of importance and value in understanding the totality of our shared faith. We each bring some right things, and some wrong things, to the conversation. And we cannot ever be completely certain if any of us is absolutely right, or absolutely wrong about our opinions. So we have to be willing to humbly accept that we each may be wrong, and we each may have something to help each other in understanding God, our relationship with God, and our relationship with each other. Frankly, since God's Spirit works in all people - since we are all God's children and God has not forsaken any of us - we also need to accept that there will be times when our understanding of the totality of God may even come out of the experiences of people outside our own Christian tradition. Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, SBNR's, even atheists, may bring something of importance to the conversation and will help us to enhance our understanding of and relationship with God and each other.

Which is a very long-winded way of saying that when it comes to questions of spiritual issues being routinely discussed in this forum, no one is "in charge." We all need to respect each other, even in the midst of the disagreements -even strong disagreements - we're bound to have. I can't speak on behalf of all Christians, or state the "one true expression" of the faith, and neither can you, and neither can anyone else. And when we try to do so, we hurt our own faith, the faith of others, and we only make ourselves and our faith look petty and not worth consideration in the eyes others.

I don't care if we agree on theology. As important as I believe theology is to our faith, if you've read my last few weeks' sermons you know what I believe is the most important aspect of our faith, and it isn't "proper" theology, whatever that might be. I've said in other recent posts, I'm very good, very long-time friends with people with very different theological beliefs. The key to our friendship is that we continue to hold each other in the love of Christ, recognizing our own strengths and weaknesses, the fact that we are both equally dependent on God's grace for our reconciliation with him, and our mutual qualifications to express our beliefs as the Spirit has guided our individual consciences.

So again, the issue between us isn't, and has never been, a matter of forgiveness. But friendship is based on a lot more than simply not having any unforgiven issues between two people. It's based on mutual respect and good will. And I'm not going to sit down around the campfire with you and sing Kum Ba Yah and pretend that I know everything's suddenly OK between us, and that kind of mutual respect and good will really exists, because I don't. I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt, but only time will really tell.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Well....

at least I tried..
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
Whether you're really trying, or whether you just want some quick warm & fuzzy feeling and then you go right back to treating me like dirt, will be borne out in your actions in the future. Until then, your words are just hopeful thoughts with no actual proof in the pudding. You've been way, way over the line, for a long, long time. As I said, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but only time will tell if you're going to really change your tune. And actually changing the tune is the only we we're ever going to have any kind of friendship again.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
So what you're telling me is that while I hold out an unconditional olive branch, you hold out a conditional one.

I get it.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
No, I don't think you do. You asked for forgiveness, and you had it before you even asked for it. But you also asked for a renewal of friendship. Only time will tell whether that's possible. Forgiveness is unconditional. Friendship is not. You seem to want to jump to the end of the book without having to read through the long, difficult chapters.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Alrighty, then.
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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big al
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Bull-Carp
When I read the post in which the acrimony broke forth, I considered quoting Romans 14 and did not do so. I think here and now is an appropriate place to mention Saint Paul's injunction to believers.

Quote:
 
Romans 14

Welcome those who are weak in faith, but not for the purpose of quarrelling over opinions. Some believe in eating anything, while the weak eat only vegetables. Those who eat must not despise those who abstain, and those who abstain must not pass judgement on those who eat; for God has welcomed them. Who are you to pass judgement on servants of another? It is before their own lord that they stand or fall. And they will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make them stand.
Some judge one day to be better than another, while others judge all days to be alike. Let all be fully convinced in their own minds. Those who observe the day, observe it in honour of the Lord. Also those who eat, eat in honour of the Lord, since they give thanks to God; while those who abstain, abstain in honour of the Lord and give thanks to God.

We do not live to ourselves, and we do not die to ourselves. If we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord; so then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord’s. For to this end Christ died and lived again, so that he might be Lord of both the dead and the living.
Why do you pass judgement on your brother or sister? Or you, why do you despise your brother or sister? For we will all stand before the judgement seat of God. For it is written,

‘As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me,
and every tongue shall give praise to God.’
So then, each of us will be accountable to God.

Let us therefore no longer pass judgement on one another, but resolve instead never to put a stumbling-block or hindrance in the way of another. I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it unclean. If your brother or sister is being injured by what you eat, you are no longer walking in love. Do not let what you eat cause the ruin of one for whom Christ died. So do not let your good be spoken of as evil. For the kingdom of God is not food and drink but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. The one who thus serves Christ is acceptable to God and has human approval. Let us then pursue what makes for peace and for mutual edification. Do not, for the sake of food, destroy the work of God. Everything is indeed clean, but it is wrong for you to make others fall by what you eat; it is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that makes your brother or sister stumble. The faith that you have, have as your own conviction before God. Blessed are those who have no reason to condemn themselves because of what they approve. But those who have doubts are condemned if they eat, because they do not act from faith; for whatever does not proceed from faith is sin.


Big Al
Location: Western PA

"jesu, der simcha fun der man's farlangen."
-bachophile
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Red Rice
HOLY CARP!!!
These two great gentlemen are dedicated to a proposition which was true in my time, just as it's true today: Be excellent to each other.

- Abraham Lincoln
Civilisation, I vaguely realized then - and subsequent observation has confirmed the view - could not progress that way. It must have a greater guiding principle to survive. To treat it as a carcase off which each man tears as much as he can for himself, is to stand convicted a brute, fit for nothing better than a jungle existence, which is a death-struggle, leading nowhither. I did not believe that was the human destiny, for Man individually was sane and reasonable, only collectively a fool.

I hope the gunner of that Hun two-seater shot him clean, bullet to heart, and that his plane, on fire, fell like a meteor through the sky he loved. Since he had to end, I hope he ended so. But, oh, the waste! The loss!

- Cecil Lewis
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