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Oslo bombing; ...multiple explosions
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Topic Started: Jul 22 2011, 08:22 AM (1,756 Views)
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Mikhailoh
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Jul 23 2011, 03:37 AM
Post #26
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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80 kids. Jesus.
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Mikhailoh
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Jul 23 2011, 03:42 AM
Post #27
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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From George's link:
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Police said they were still searching the suspect's Oslo apartment Saturday. An AP reporter said officers were keeping a close watch outside while technicians worked inside. About a dozen people, including journalists and neighbors, were hovering outside, but were not allowed to get close to the building.
Andresen, the acting police chief, said the suspect was talking to police.
"He is clear on the point that he wants to explain himself," he told reporters at a news conference.
For God's sake, don't give him a platform for his views. Let them die with him.
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Renauda
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Jul 23 2011, 06:53 AM
Post #28
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- John D'Oh
- Jul 23 2011, 03:34 AM
I find this type of situation far more disturbing and frightening than 'normal' terrorism.
Yes, when the *enemy within* happens to be from your own tribe the nihilism motivating the terrorist is far more acutely experienced by the indirect victims of the terror itself.
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apple
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Jul 23 2011, 06:54 AM
Post #29
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92
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it behooves me to behold
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Dewey
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Jul 23 2011, 07:20 AM
Post #30
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.
"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous
"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011
I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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Axtremus
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Jul 23 2011, 07:30 AM
Post #31
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Link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14259356- BBC News
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23 July 2011 Last updated at 10:26 ET
Norway police say 85 killed in island youth camp attack At least 85 people died when a gunman opened fire at an island youth camp in Norway, hours after a bombing in the capital Oslo killed seven, police say.
Police have charged a 32-year-old Norwegian man over both attacks.
The man dressed as a police officer was arrested on tiny Utoeya island after an hour-long shooting spree.
Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg said many people were still looking for their children and had not so far been able to locate them.
He was speaking after meeting victims and relatives with Norway's King Harald, Queen Sonja and Crown Prince Haakon in the town of Sundvollen near the island.
Mr Stoltenberg said he was "deeply touched" by the meetings. "We will do whatever we can to give them as much support as possible," he said.
Earlier he said that he was due to have been on Utoeya - "a youth paradise turned into a hell" - a few hours after the attack took place.
The suspect is reported by local media to have had links with right-wing extremists. He has been named as Anders Behring Breivik. Police searched his Oslo apartment overnight and are questioning him.
The BBC's Richard Galpin, near the island which is currently cordoned off by police, says that Norway has had problems with neo-Nazi groups in the past but the assumption was that such groups had been largely eliminated and did not pose a significant threat.
Police say they are investigating whether the attacks were the work of one man or whether others helped. "At Utoeya, the water is still being searched for more victims," deputy police chief Roger Andresen told reporters.
"We have no more information than... what has been found on [his] own websites, which is that it goes towards the right and that it is, so to speak, Christian fundamentalist."
Local media report that police are investigating claims by witnesses that a second person was involved, apparently not disguised in a police uniform.
A farm supply firm has confirmed selling six tonnes of fertiliser to Mr Breivik who is reported to have run a farming company. Speculation has been rife that fertiliser could have been used in the Oslo bomb.
'Posed as policeman' The number killed in the island shooting spree, which is among the world's most deadly, had been put at 10 on Friday - but soared overnight. Hundreds of young people had been attending the summer camp organised by the governing Labour Party on Utoeya island.
Eyewitnesses described how a tall, blond man dressed as a policeman opened fire indiscriminately, prompting camp attendees to jump into the water to try to escape the hail of bullets.
Some of the teenagers were shot at as they tried to swim to safety.
Armed police were deployed to the island but details of the operation to capture the suspect remain unclear. After his arrest he was charged with committing acts of terrorism.
Police say they discovered many more victims after searching the area around the island. They have warned the death toll may rise further as rescue teams continue to scour the waters around the island. The gunman is reported to have been armed with a handgun, an automatic weapon and a shotgun.
"He travelled on the ferry boat from the mainland over to that little inland island posing as a police officer, saying he was there to do research in connection with the bomb blasts," NRK journalist Ole Torp told the BBC.
"He asked people to gather round and then he started shooting, so these young people fled into the bushes and woods and some even swam off the island to get to safety."
One 15-year-old eyewitness described how she saw what she thought was a police officer open fire. "He first shot people on the island. Afterward he started shooting people in the water," youth camp delegate Elise told Associated Press.
'Despicable violence' The attacks sparked strong international condemnation, with US President Barack Obama expressing his condolences and offering support. Britain's Queen Elizabeth II spoke of her shock and sadness in a letter to King Harald.
In Oslo, government officials urged people to stay at home and avoid central areas of the city.
Shards of twisted metal, rubble and glass littered the streets of central Oslo left devastated by Friday's enormous explosion.
Windows in the buildings of the government quarter were shattered and witnesses described how smoke filled the atmosphere around the blast site.
The BBC's John Sopel in Oslo says there is a heavy military presence, with checkpoints around the quarter.
Mr Stoltenberg said civil servants were among the dead in Oslo and he knew some of those killed.
There are also concerns that more victims may still be inside buildings hit by the initial massive explosion.
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Axtremus
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Jul 23 2011, 07:33 AM
Post #32
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(hat tip John Galt) From the New York Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/24/world/europe/24oslo.html - NYT
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Death Toll Rises to 92 in Norway Attacks By ELISA MALA and J. DAVID GOODMAN OSLO — The Norwegian police on Saturday charged a 32-year-old man, whom they identified as a Christian fundamentalist with right-wing connections, over the bombing of a government center here and a shooting attack on a nearby island that together left at least 92 people dead.
The police said they did not know if the man, identified by the Norwegian media as Anders Behring Breivik, was part of a larger conspiracy. He is being questioned under the country’s terrorism laws, the police said, and is cooperating with the investigation of the attacks, the deadliest on Norwegian soil since World War II.
Some witnesses to the shooting on the island raised the possibility of a second gunman, but police could not confirmed the reports. Still, they did not rule out the possibility.
“We are not sure whether he was alone or had help,” a police official, Roger Andresen, said at a televised news conference. “What we know is that he is right-wing and a Christian fundamentalist.” So far Mr. Breivik has not been linked to any anti-jihadist groups, he said.On Saturday, King Harald and Queen Sonja met with survivors of the camp shooting and their family members at a hotel outside Oslo.
The prime minister, Jens Stoltenberg, who also met with survivors on Saturday, would not speculate on a motive for the attacks.
“Compared to other countries I wouldn’t say we have a big problem with right-wing extremists in Norway,” Mr. Stoltenberg told reporters at a news conference. “But we have had some groups, we have followed them before, and our police is aware that there are some right-wing groups.”
As details of the shooting continued to unfold, soldiers arrived in Oslo on Saturday to secure government buildings. The explosions here, from one or more bombs, turned the tidy Scandinavian capital into a scene reminiscent of terrorist attacks in Baghdad or Oklahoma City, panicking people and blowing out the windows of government buildings, including one that housed the office of the prime minister.
Even as the police locked down a large area of the city after the blast, the suspect, dressed as a police officer, entered the youth camp on the island of Utoya, about 19 miles northwest of Oslo, a Norwegian security official said, and opened fire. “He said it was a routine check in connection with the terror attack in Oslo,” one witness told VG Nett, the Web site of a national newspaper.
The police said the suspect had used “a machine pistol” in the attack, but declined to provide additional details.
At least 85 people, some as young as 16, were killed on the island, the police said Saturday on national television. The death toll could rise as they continue to search for bodies in the waters around the island.
In a news conference on Saturday, the Norwegian foreign minister, Jonas Gahr Store, confirmed that former Prime Minister Gro Harlem Brundtland had made a speech on Utoya hours before the shooting.
Adrian Pracon, who had been working in an information booth on the island, told the BBC that almost everyone on Utoya — about 700 people — had gathered after reports of the Oslo bombing.
It was at that point, Mr. Pracon told the BBC, that a man in a police uniform arrived on the island and opened fire on the group.
“People were falling dead right in front of me,” Mr. Pracon said. “I ran through the campus to the tent area. I saw the gunman — two people started to talk to him and two seconds later they were both shot.”
He described the gunman as “sure, calm and controlled.”
“He screamed at us that we would all die,” Mr. Pracon said.
Terrified youths jumped into the water and “started to swim in a panic, and Utoya is far from the mainland,” said Bjorn Jarle Roberg-Larsen, a Labor Party member who spoke by phone with teenagers on the island, which has no bridge to the mainland. “Others are hiding. Those I spoke with don’t want to talk more. They’re scared to death.”
Many could not flee in time.
“He first shot people on the island,” a 15-year-old camper named Elise told The Associated Press. “Afterward he started shooting people in the water.”
Mr. Pracon said he also jumped into the water, but realized he could not reach the mainland and turned back.
“I saw him standing 10 meters from me, shooting at the people who were swimming,” he told the BBC. “He aimed his machine gun at me and I screamed at him, ‘No please no, don’t do it.’ I don’t know if he listened to me but he spared me.”
Mr. Pracon said he was huddled freezing in the cold rain with a number of other people, when the gunman returned later.
“The shooting started again and people were falling on top of me, on my legs and falling into the water,” he said, according to the BBC, “that’s when many people died. I just had to shield myself behind them, praying he wouldn’t see me.”
The gunman came so close that Mr. Pracon said he could feel the man’s breath and the warmth of the gun barrel, “But I didn’t move and that’s what saved my life,” he told the BBC.
Mr. Breivik was captured “by the emergency forces,” police officials said Saturday, but declined to provide further detail about the circumstances of his capture.
“As for right now, one man has been apprehended, and that’s all I can say,” Mr. Andresen said. The acting police chief, Sveinung Sponheim, said the suspect’s Internet postings “suggest that he has some political traits directed toward the right, and anti-Muslim views, but if that was a motivation for the actual act remains to be seen.”
He said the suspect had been seen in Oslo before the explosions. The police and other authorities declined to say what the suspect’s motivations might have been, but many speculated that the target was Mr. Stoltenberg’s liberal government.
The police said they also recovered explosives on the island.
Mr. Breivik had registered a farm-related business in Rena, in eastern Norway, which the authorities said allowed him to order a large quantity of ammonium nitrate fertilizer, an ingredient that can be used to make explosives.
Reuters quoted a spokeswoman from a farm supply chain as saying that the suspect had purchased six metric tons of fertilizer in May. “These are goods that were delivered on May 4,” Oddny Estenstad, a spokeswoman at agricultural supply chain Felleskjoepet Agri, told Reuters, without giving the exact type of fertilizer purchased.
Authorities were investigating whether the chemical may have been used to make the bombs.
A Facebook page matching his name and the photo given out by the police was set up just a few days ago. It listed his religion as Christian and his politics as conservative. It said he enjoys hunting, the video games World of Warcraft and Modern Warfare 2, and books including Machiavelli’s “The Prince” and George Orwell’s “1984.”
There was also a Twitter account apparently belonging to Mr. Breivik. It had one item, posted last Sunday: “One person with a belief is equal to the force of 100,000 who have only interests.”
The attacks bewildered a nation better known for its active diplomacy and peacekeeping missions than as a target for extremists.
In Oslo, office workers and civil servants said that at least two blasts, which ripped through the cluster of modern office buildings around the central Einar Gerhardsen plaza, echoed across the city in quick succession around 3:20 p.m. local time. Giant clouds of light-colored smoke rose hundreds of feet as a fire burned in one of the damaged structures, a six-story office building that houses the oil ministry.
The force of the explosions blew out nearly every window in the 17-story office building across the street from the oil ministry, and the streets on each side were strewn with glass and debris. The police combed through the debris in search of clues.
Mr. Stoltenberg’s office is on the 16th floor in a towering rectangular block whose facade and lower floors were damaged. The justice ministry also has its offices in the building.
Norwegian authorities said they believed that a number of tourists were in the central district at the time of the explosion, and that the toll would surely have been higher if not for the fact that many Norwegians were on vacation and many more had left their offices early for the weekend.
“Luckily, it’s very empty,” said Stale Sandberg, who works in a government agency a few blocks down the street from the prime minister’s office.
After the explosions, the city filled with an unfamiliar sense of vulnerability. “We heard two loud bangs and then we saw this yellow smoke coming from the government buildings,” said Jeppe Bucher, 18, who works on a ferry boat less than a mile from the bomb site. “There was construction around there, so we thought it was a building being torn down.”
He added, “Of course I’m scared, because Norway is such a neutral country.”
For some Norwegians on Saturday, the scale of the attacks, and the fact that they appeared to have been carried out by one of their own, seemed particularly hard to grasp.
“It is difficult to think this is coming from inside our country, not outside,” said Thorbjorn Jagland, a Norwegian who is secretary general of the Council of Europe. “This is something surprising for all of us.”
“This is something that is not possible to understand at all,” he told BBC radio.
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George K
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Jul 23 2011, 07:40 AM
Post #33
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Unbelievable.
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Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.
I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18
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sue
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Jul 23 2011, 07:50 AM
Post #34
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- Renauda
- Jul 23 2011, 06:53 AM
- John D'Oh
- Jul 23 2011, 03:34 AM
I find this type of situation far more disturbing and frightening than 'normal' terrorism.
Yes, when the *enemy within* happens to be from your own tribe the nihilism motivating the terrorist is far more acutely experienced by the indirect victims of the terror itself. yes.
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jeffanie96
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Jul 23 2011, 07:51 AM
Post #35
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I can't even imagine what the families of those children are going through. I heard stories of children pretending to be dead, another girl hid behind the rock that he was shooting from. My thoughts and prayers are with the families. Of course the issue now is motive so we can prevent this from happening again. Little Green Footballs found his blog, shut down in 2005:
http://fjordman.blogspot.com/
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/38919_Breaking-_Oslo_Terrorist_Tied_to_Right_Wing_Extremism_-_Update-_A_Pamela_Geller_Fan
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sue
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Jul 23 2011, 08:09 AM
Post #36
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- jeffanie96
- Jul 23 2011, 07:51 AM
Of course the issue now is motive so we can prevent this from happening again. I don't know. I don't think you can prevent people from becoming insane and obsessed.
About all that can happen is that Norway loses it's innocence, and they'll increase security everywhere.
And yes, I keep thinking what hell the parents must have gone through. Are going through, as they are still searching for bodies.
Edited by sue, Jul 23 2011, 08:12 AM.
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Luke's Dad
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Jul 23 2011, 08:42 AM
Post #37
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How the hell is one man capable of killing 85 people when he can only be shooting one at a time? We're teaching all of our kids to be sheep, punish those who would be shephards, and this is the result.
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The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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Luke's Dad
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Jul 23 2011, 08:44 AM
Post #38
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- sue
- Jul 23 2011, 08:09 AM
- jeffanie96
- Jul 23 2011, 07:51 AM
Of course the issue now is motive so we can prevent this from happening again.
I don't know. I don't think you can prevent people from becoming insane and obsessed. About all that can happen is that Norway loses it's innocence, and they'll increase security everywhere. And yes, I keep thinking what hell the parents must have gone through. Are going through, as they are still searching for bodies. You prevent it by teaching children that they don't have to be victims, and that it's ok to act in their own defense.
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The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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Mikhailoh
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Jul 23 2011, 08:47 AM
Post #39
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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If 80 young men had rushed him it would have been over pretty quickly, yes.
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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kenny
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Jul 23 2011, 08:48 AM
Post #40
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- Luke's Dad
- Jul 23 2011, 08:42 AM
How the hell is one man capable of killing 85 people when he can only be shooting one at a time? That's what I was wondering. I suspect there was one or more other gun(wo)ma(e)n they have not caught yet.
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Luke's Dad
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Jul 23 2011, 08:58 AM
Post #41
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It's not exactly easy to shoot a person. It's actually damn hard to hit a moving target. The guy wasn't carrying around a crate of ammo, which means most of his targets weren't moving.
The thing about the VA Tch massacre that nobody talks about? Almost all of the kids were shot in the head execution style with a pistol while they were on their knees.
How many people died 11 years ago because 400-500 people were scared of 0f a handful of men with frikkin 1" bladed boxcutters?
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The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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brenda
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Jul 23 2011, 09:36 AM
Post #42
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Sue nailed it. The guy is insane.
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“Weeds are flowers, too, once you get to know them.” ~A.A. Milne
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John D'Oh
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Jul 23 2011, 12:33 PM
Post #43
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It sounds as though he was a far-right type. To be honest, I don't think it really matters what his beliefs were. Lots of people are anti-immigration and don't go out and kill 80 people, just the same as lots of people are Muslim and don't blow themselves up on a London bus.
As far as people defending themselves - I think that might be a bit easier said than done once panic sets in. According to reports at least two people went over to talk to him thinking he was a policeman coming to help. If 80 people rush him, they'll overpower him, but I'd much rather be number 25 in the line than number 1, and that's probably how everybody feels.
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What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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ivorythumper
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Jul 23 2011, 01:11 PM
Post #44
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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It's kinda like the color wheel -- the far left and far right meet up on the political spectrum.
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The dogma lives loudly within me.
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kenny
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Jul 23 2011, 01:12 PM
Post #45
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Has Copper posted since this happened?
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kluurs
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Jul 23 2011, 05:23 PM
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I suspect rushing him wasn't an option. He didn't show up - explain to everyone that he planned to kill them all and then begin doing that in front of them. This wasn't like the airliner where everyone saw and knew everything at the same time. People likely did not know what was happening for a while. They were on different parts of the island. Dressed as a policeman, he could lure people out thinking it was safe. He was supposedly well trained. He had a lot of time - and he went back to kill the wounded and/or those who seemed to be faking. The best strategy in this situation was probably to hide - and hide well - and not believe it was safe to go out - even if a policeman said it was. We likely won't know accurate details for a while - remember the idiocy of reporting in the first hours after 9/11 and most recently the Bin Ladin death? All kinds of false stories emerged.
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George K
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Jul 23 2011, 08:01 PM
Post #47
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An hour and a half for the cops to get there...
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Police arrived at an island massacre about an hour and a half after a gunman first opened fire, slowed because they didn't have quick access to a helicopter and then couldn't find a boat to make their way to the scene just several hundred yards (meters) offshore. The assailant surrendered when police finally reached him, but 82 people died before that.
Survivors of the shooting spree have described hiding and fleeing into the water to escape the gunman, but a police briefing Saturday detailed for the first time how long the terror lasted — and how long victims waited for help.
The shooting came on the heels of what police told The Associated Press was an "Oklahoma city-type" bombing in Oslo's downtown: It targeted a government building, was allegedly perpetrated by a homegrown assailant and used the same mix of fertilizer and fuel that blew up a federal building in the U.S. in 1995.
In all, at least 89 people were killed in the twin attacks that police are blaming on the same suspect, 32-year-old Norwegian Anders Behring Breivik.
"He has confessed to the factual circumstances," Breivik's defense lawyer, Geir Lippestad, told public broadcaster NRK. Lippestad said his client had also made some comments about his motives.
"He's said some things about that but I don't want to talk about it now," the lawyer told NRK.
Norwegian news agency NTB said the suspect wrote a 1,500-page manifesto before the attack in which he attacked multiculturalism and Muslim immigration. The manifesto also described how to acquire explosives and contained pictures of Breivik, NTB said. Oslo police declined to comment on the report.
A SWAT team was dispatched to the island more than 50 minutes after people vacationing at a campground said they heard shooting across the lake, according to Police Chief Sveinung Sponheim.
The drive to the lake took about 20 minutes, and once there, the team took another 20 minutes to find a boat.
Footage filmed from a helicopter that showed the gunman firing into the water added to the impression that police were slow to the scene. They chose to drive, Sponheim said, because their helicopter wasn't on standby.
"There were problems with transport to Utoya," where the youth-wing of Norway's left-leaning Labor Party was holding a retreat, Sponheim said. "It was difficult to get a hold of boats."
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A guide to GKSR: Click
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.
I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18
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George K
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Jul 23 2011, 08:23 PM
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The self-admiited killer faces 21 years in prison:
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The Norwegian man accused of launching twin terror attacks in Oslo and at a nearby summer camp for teenagers that left at least 92 dead has "admitted responsibility," his lawyer told Norway's NRK television network Saturday.
Police labeled the attacks as acts of terrorism punishable by up to 21 years in prison according to Norwegian law, the Wall Street Journal reported. Norway does not have the death penalty.
Police said 85 people, many of them teenagers, were killed in the Friday afternoon shooting at a summer camp for the youth wing of the ruling Labor Party, on the island of Utoya.
The rampage followed a bombing 90 minutes earlier that ripped through government offices in the Norwegian capital and killed at least seven people.
Local media have identified the suspect as 32-year-old Anders Behring Breivik, although his attorney, Geir Lippestad, had asked police not to confirm his name.
Lippestad Saturday told Norway's NRK television network that his client had "admitted responsibility" for Friday's attacks.
"He explained that it was cruel but that he had to go through with these acts," Lippestad said, according to AFP, adding that the attacks were "apparently planned over a long period of time."
Just under 3 months per person killed.
And he'll be out of prison when he's younger than I am - by almost a decade.
Edited by George K, Jul 23 2011, 08:24 PM.
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A guide to GKSR: Click
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.
I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18
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Renauda
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Jul 23 2011, 08:49 PM
Post #49
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Let the Norwegians deal with it as they see fit. He is their own home grown Timothy McVeigh.
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George K
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Jul 23 2011, 08:51 PM
Post #50
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- Renauda
- Jul 23 2011, 08:49 PM
Let the Norwegians deal with it as they see fit. He is their own home grown Timothy McVeigh. Fair enough. The Norwegians have their laws.
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