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| Minor dilemma; ...thoughts | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 14 2011, 06:57 AM (490 Views) | |
| The 89th Key | Jul 14 2011, 06:57 AM Post #1 |
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I actually typed this up the other day, but decided not to post it since I'm pretty sure what I'll do and don't want to come off sounding greedy. Maybe I'll still sound that way, who knows... I design and develop websites as a side business. Trying to keep a long story short...an immediate family member of mine is starting a business with a partner. The central hub of their business is a website. They don't have any start up capital and was hoping I'd help out as a family favor as well as "would be compensated down the road if this takes off". I have no problem helping out family, they are #1 to me. But the scope of this website is actually pretty intense, something I'd charge quite a bit of money for if for a normal client. I feel like I'm selling myself short doing such a large project, but I also want to help family out. Thoughts? |
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| jon-nyc | Jul 14 2011, 07:05 AM Post #2 |
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Cheers
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I'd probably just do it. I suppose you could also consider it a loan and ask for a small percentage of reveunues until you're whole. If the latter, than I'd stipulate that its non-recourse, meaning if the revenues don't come they don't owe you anything. The other problem is it probably isn't a one-time request, after its live they'll no doubt desire changes. |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| Copper | Jul 14 2011, 07:05 AM Post #3 |
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Shortstop
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Define exactly how you want it go work. "If this takes off" is no good. How do you measure that? |
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The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
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| The 89th Key | Jul 14 2011, 07:09 AM Post #4 |
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I did half-joke that perhaps I'll just get 10% of their profits for the first 5 years. I'm thinking I'll do it, but in the initial conversations I'll mention that "Normally this would be a $______ job and if this takes off, we can work out a repayment schedule to meet that". |
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| Mikhailoh | Jul 14 2011, 07:10 AM Post #5 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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If it is a substantial amount of work, it will surely require maintenance. This is a business the are starting to make money, not a social service project of some sort. You should be compensated out of the profits. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| Red Rice | Jul 14 2011, 07:10 AM Post #6 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I used to do kind of the same thing for money in college. So many times potential clients, instead of paying me for my services, would promise me that I would be well-paid down the road if things "took off" (very much like what you were promised), or that they would be sure to credit me as the designer on their website and therefore the "publicity" would be good for my business. Needless to say, I turned these offers down. My take on your situation is that it depends how much you want to help family out. If that is the most important consideration for you, then do a good job for them, and be prepared to grit your teeth and bear it if they are demanding/perpetually unsatisfied/take up a disproportionate amount of your time. If you are compensated down the road, bonus! But don't expect it. Accept from the beginning that you're likely going to be doing this difficult project for free. (The fact that they have no start-up capital is not a good sign to me.) If the above is unacceptable to you in any way, then explain that you're too busy with other work and politely decline. Best way to avoid hard feelings and preserve your relationships. |
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Civilisation, I vaguely realized then - and subsequent observation has confirmed the view - could not progress that way. It must have a greater guiding principle to survive. To treat it as a carcase off which each man tears as much as he can for himself, is to stand convicted a brute, fit for nothing better than a jungle existence, which is a death-struggle, leading nowhither. I did not believe that was the human destiny, for Man individually was sane and reasonable, only collectively a fool. I hope the gunner of that Hun two-seater shot him clean, bullet to heart, and that his plane, on fire, fell like a meteor through the sky he loved. Since he had to end, I hope he ended so. But, oh, the waste! The loss! - Cecil Lewis | |
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| Larry | Jul 14 2011, 07:17 AM Post #7 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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When I hear "I'll pay you when it takes off" I know it isn't ever going to take off. I also know that the blood sucking will never stop if I do it anyway, until it dies and then I get blamed for it. If it's a web centered business, they've just asked you to create their business for free. At the very least, you should be an equal partner in that business, if you're going to be the one that creates the "store". |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| VPG | Jul 14 2011, 07:19 AM Post #8 |
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Pisa-Carp
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Why not ask for a small piece of the business. 2 or 3 % and you would also maintain the cite. |
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I'M NOT YELLING.........I'M ITALIAN...........THAT'S HOW WE TALK! "People say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look." Ronald Reagan, Inaugural, 1971 | |
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| The 89th Key | Jul 14 2011, 07:20 AM Post #9 |
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Appreciate the comments - very good food for thought. Much appreciated. |
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| Red Rice | Jul 14 2011, 07:23 AM Post #10 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Are you talking about business or marriage? |
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Civilisation, I vaguely realized then - and subsequent observation has confirmed the view - could not progress that way. It must have a greater guiding principle to survive. To treat it as a carcase off which each man tears as much as he can for himself, is to stand convicted a brute, fit for nothing better than a jungle existence, which is a death-struggle, leading nowhither. I did not believe that was the human destiny, for Man individually was sane and reasonable, only collectively a fool. I hope the gunner of that Hun two-seater shot him clean, bullet to heart, and that his plane, on fire, fell like a meteor through the sky he loved. Since he had to end, I hope he ended so. But, oh, the waste! The loss! - Cecil Lewis | |
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| Larry | Jul 14 2011, 07:24 AM Post #11 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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![]() Both..... |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| Horace | Jul 14 2011, 07:49 AM Post #12 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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The best part of working with family is the level of trust you all share. That trust will allow you to stall them while you steal their idea and build your own website for it. (h/t, Mark Zuckerberg.) |
| As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good? | |
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| Copper | Jul 14 2011, 08:24 AM Post #13 |
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Shortstop
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If I owned the business I would pay myself and all my bills before I counted any profit. Better for you to ask for a share of gross revenue rather than profit. |
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The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
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| ivorythumper | Jul 14 2011, 09:13 AM Post #14 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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ding! ding! ding! 10% off the top in perpetuity -- it's just overhead to them. |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| ivorythumper | Jul 14 2011, 09:14 AM Post #15 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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""Normally this would be a $______ job and if this takes off, we can work out a repayment schedule to meet that". " That means you are financing their risk without reward. Bad business model. |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| The 89th Key | Jul 14 2011, 11:27 AM Post #16 |
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Copper - I like it. Consider it done.
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| RosemaryTwo | Jul 14 2011, 11:37 AM Post #17 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I second what RR said. My husband gets hit up frequently for free legal service. People fail to realize that a lawyer's capital is his time and he has significant overhead, including of course dozens of support staff who want to be paid. On occasion when someone asks for a favor, and he's not too busy, and he feels the person really is stuck, he will dig them out of a hole. They usually have no idea what the legal services would have cost them in real money. I suppose I'm saying that he weighs the drain on his time and income, in connection with how badly someone needs help. Of course, when his wife volunteers his free legal services to a third party, he always comes through. |
| "Perhaps the thing to do is just to let stupid run its course." Aqua | |
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| Catraoine | Jul 14 2011, 04:04 PM Post #18 |
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Junior Carp
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You either decide to do it for free with NO conditions, or you approach it as a business venture and have the terms put down on paper...friends/family and business ventures.....a mine field!! |
| Hatred is often felt by those that cannot understand why you are so loved. | |
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| sue | Jul 14 2011, 05:01 PM Post #19 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I agree completely. Be clear: no maybes, what ifs, etc. |
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| dolmansaxlil | Jul 14 2011, 05:16 PM Post #20 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I'm with Catraoine. You propose to become a business partner or you do it for free. I'm all for following the Seth Godin model of giving your 'gifts'. But to me, they have to be true gifts. If they're not, then it's 'work' and it needs to be treated as such. |
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"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst." ~ Henri Cartier-Bresson My Flickr Photostream | |
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| kluurs | Jul 15 2011, 09:15 AM Post #21 |
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Fulla-Carp
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watch an episode of "Shark Tank" before making a deal. |
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| Axtremus | Jul 15 2011, 09:22 AM Post #22 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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+1 Formalize the arrangement or assume that you'll be doing it for free. |
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| Dan | Jul 15 2011, 09:23 AM Post #23 |
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Senior Carp
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Yeah, Cat nailed this one. Do it for free - no strings attached, or get it in writing. |
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| blondie | Jul 15 2011, 09:47 AM Post #24 |
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Bull-Carp
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I'd likely help a family member. It's the family member + partner I'd hesitate with. A family member best understands your time, your commitments. A family member should also understand your need for compensation if his/her business grows. |
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| Dan | Jul 15 2011, 10:15 AM Post #25 |
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Senior Carp
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Right and true. It is the 'partner' that adds a layer of complication. Your family may or may not be trustworthy in this type of situation, but you should know which way the wind blows on that already. The partner is not family and is getting the benefit of the work too. And the partner might not play so nice if the business is successful when it comes to compensation for past work... |
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11:32 AM Jul 11