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Senate GOP's interesting idea on raising debt ceiling; just give the President the power to raise it!
Topic Started: Jul 12 2011, 04:58 PM (244 Views)
Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Senate GOP minority leader Mitch McConnell floated this interesting idea today ... the idea, essentially, is to give the President the power to raise the debt ceiling -- no real insistence on spending cuts, the President just need to ask to raise the debt ceiling, and the debt ceiling will be raised UNLESS Congress can deliver a veto-proof supermajority to "override" the request.

So instead of needing Congress to explicitly authorize the raise of the debt ceiling, the GOP Senator's idea is to turn it around such that the limit can be raised pretty much on-demand by the President, unless overridden by a super-majorty in Congress.

Congress would no longer have to "raise" the debt ceiling, it would just have a lever to "stop the raise" if/when it can get garner a super-majority to exercise that lever.

Get the details here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/12/mitch-mcconnell-debt-ceiling-plan_n_896254.html

What do you guys think about this idea?

:blink:
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
I think Obama engaged in economic terrorism by threatening seniors and their Social Security checks, knowing damn well that a default by the government does not mean immediate cessation of those checks.

I wouldn't trust the man as far as I could throw him, let alone cut a deal with him.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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jon-nyc
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The entire idea of debt ceiling legislation independent of appropriations legislation is asinine anyway.

This is pretty cynical however, they know the ceiling has to be raised but they want to be able to blame it entirely on the other party. This allows them to vote against it without actually stopping it from being raised.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Axtremus
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Jolly
Jul 12 2011, 05:01 PM
I wouldn't trust the man as far as I could throw him, let alone cut a deal with him.
So would you give him the power to raise the debt limit all by his own, and just keep a lever that requires a super-majoity in Congress to pull to stop him?
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Copper
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Axtremus
Jul 12 2011, 04:58 PM

What do you guys think about this idea?


If it is the responsibility of Congress now, can they just give away the responsibility?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_powers_under_the_United_States_Constitution

Quote:
 
Congress has the sole power to legislate for the United States. Under the nondelegation doctrine, Congress may not delegate its lawmaking responsibilities to any other agency. In this vein, the Supreme Court held in the 1998 case Clinton v. City of New York that Congress could not delegate a "line-item veto" to the President, by which he was empowered to selectively nullify certain provisions of a bill before signing it. The Constitution Article I, Section 8; says to give all the power to Congress. Congress has the exclusive power to legislate, to make laws and in addition to the enumerated powers it has all other powers vested in the government by the Constitution.

The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Every time I see an act of cynical political cowardice, and think 'OK, that's the limit - that can't be beaten!', I'm proved wrong.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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jon-nyc
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I don't think that would apply. They would still retain appropriations power. So the President would only borrow to accommodate the level of spending that COngress themselves votes on.

edit: reply to Copper's post
Edited by jon-nyc, Jul 12 2011, 05:42 PM.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Axtremus
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jon-nyc
Jul 12 2011, 05:42 PM
I don't think that would apply. They would still retain appropriations power. So the President would only borrow to accommodate the level of spending that COngress themselves votes on.

edit: reply to Copper's post
Or, for that matter, to finance the tax cuts that Congress votes on, too.
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John D'Oh
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Jolly
Jul 12 2011, 05:01 PM
I think Obama engaged in economic terrorism by threatening seniors and their Social Security checks, knowing damn well that a default by the government does not mean immediate cessation of those checks.

I wouldn't trust the man as far as I could throw him, let alone cut a deal with him.
No truly sane man would. The real question is why would you trust the Congress any more than him?
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
John D'Oh
Jul 12 2011, 05:45 PM
Jolly
Jul 12 2011, 05:01 PM
I think Obama engaged in economic terrorism by threatening seniors and their Social Security checks, knowing damn well that a default by the government does not mean immediate cessation of those checks.

I wouldn't trust the man as far as I could throw him, let alone cut a deal with him.
No truly sane man would. The real question is why would you trust the Congress any more than him?
Because surely they can't screw up as well as one dedicated individual.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Jolly
Jul 12 2011, 05:49 PM
John D'Oh
Jul 12 2011, 05:45 PM
Jolly
Jul 12 2011, 05:01 PM
I think Obama engaged in economic terrorism by threatening seniors and their Social Security checks, knowing damn well that a default by the government does not mean immediate cessation of those checks.

I wouldn't trust the man as far as I could throw him, let alone cut a deal with him.
No truly sane man would. The real question is why would you trust the Congress any more than him?
Because surely they can't screw up as well as one dedicated individual.
Well now you're just making the argument for replacing your Presidential system with a parliamentary one. You could make Sarah Palin into a constitutional monarch (which I suspect would make her happier than anybody on earth), and then have a House of Commons, and a black rod and everything.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Copper
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John D'Oh
Jul 12 2011, 05:54 PM

You could make Sarah Palin into a constitutional monarch

Been there, done that.

Posted Image
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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jon-nyc
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She's missing the pink vagina hat.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Article:

McConnell Debt Ceiling Strategy: 'I Refuse To Help Obama Reelection'

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/13/mcconnell-on-his-debt-cei_n_897124.html
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Kincaid
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HOLY CARP!!!
jon-nyc
Jul 12 2011, 05:03 PM
This is pretty cynical however, they know the ceiling has to be raised but they want to be able to blame it entirely on the other party. This allows them to vote against it without actually stopping it from being raised.
This is almost my take. McConnell's idea is so that the Republican campaign slogan in 2012 can be "Who, me?"
Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006.
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Axtremus
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Reid and McConnell's new plan:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...d-plan_n_898278.html

Quote:
 
WASHINGTON -- The Senate's top two officials [Reid and McConnell] are working on what one aide called a "hybrid," fail-safe solution to the debt ceiling debate that could garner enough political support to pass Congress.

The plan, which is being hatched by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.), would ensure that over $1.5 trillion in cuts over ten years be passed into law. It would also grant President Obama the authority to extend the debt ceiling through the 2012 election season while requiring him to propose -- but allowing him to ultimately veto -- cuts beyond those initial $1.5 trillion.

Additionally, the deal would create a new "deficit commission" compromised solely of lawmakers who would be tasked with finding additional savings in the budget. The commission's recommendations would be given automatic, amendment-free votes in both chambers of Congress.
...
But the contours do, on the surface, seem promising. The basic premise is to blend the debt ceiling deal crafted in talks led by Vice President Joe Biden with the plan that McConnell proposed this week, which would give the president authority to raise the debt ceiling while vetoing corresponding cuts.

As the dual plan is envisioned, House Republicans would be able to claim that they passed a deal without including revenue raisers or tax hikes. The president, meanwhile, will be able to move the debt ceiling debate into 2013, albeit while having to hold a largely pre-determined vote for a second extension (once the $1.5 trillion in cuts run out) before the election. Democrats would have to swallow a deal that didn't include revenues, but they will have protected entitlement programs like Social Security and Medicare from cuts.

"It is a hybrid approach," said the Democratic official familiar with the proposal. "It is a way to get us some cuts now while making sure we have an option that we do not default on our debt."
What do you guys think about this variation?
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
With Irresponsibility Comes Power, says The Economist.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Kincaid
Jul 13 2011, 10:48 AM
jon-nyc
Jul 12 2011, 05:03 PM
This is pretty cynical however, they know the ceiling has to be raised but they want to be able to blame it entirely on the other party. This allows them to vote against it without actually stopping it from being raised.
This is almost my take. McConnell's idea is so that the Republican campaign slogan in 2012 can be "Who, me?"
Maybe Congress should do this over every problematic issue they don't like or are intellectually or emotionally incapable of dealing with? Within a couple of years, you'd have a dictatorshipm so it would cease to be a problem.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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