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Topic Started: May 26 2011, 05:52 PM (521 Views)
Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/05/26/ill-diocese-ends-adoptions-gay-rights-law/
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
If that's what they feel is consistent with their beliefs, then that's what they should do. I disagree with their opinion completely and think it's counterproductive to the gospel in general and undercuts its pro-life efforts specifically, but it's their rodeo, not mine.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Well, what are they to do? They can't make concessions regarding their beliefs based on the regulations of the state. The article is obviously geared to make the reader place blame on them backward, tyrannical Catholics but what I want to know is why the state government couldn't have left them alone.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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sue
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HOLY CARP!!!
Sad, though. 'teachings of the catholic faith' trumping the possibility of good loving homes for kids who need one. Priorities askew, I'd say.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
sue
May 26 2011, 08:31 PM
Sad, though. 'teachings of the catholic faith' trumping the possibility of good loving homes for kids who need one. Priorities askew, I'd say.
Gay politics trumping the good work of folks actually providing good loving homes for kids who need one. Priorities askew, I'd say.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
Do you believe that same-sex couples aren't capable of providing good loving homes for kids who need one?
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
It does not matter. A free love commune or the Ritz Hotel is potentially capable of providing good loving homes for kids who need one, and I don't think either of those two free will corporations should be allowed to adopt either.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Dewey
May 26 2011, 08:45 PM
Do you believe that same-sex couples aren't capable of providing good loving homes for kids who need one?
Some are.

But...I wouldn't call them the ideal choice.

Faith sometimes makes one make some very hard choices. In this case, it looks like the Catholics have decided it's better for the government to place the children, if the government will not allow them to act within the confines of their faith.

Looks to me like the bonehead in this tale is the gooberment, not the Catholics.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
I would have to agree. Heavy handed government.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
I understand the intent to stand on principle on the part of the diocese. But beyond my disagreement over the acceptability of same-sex couples who are otherwise screened the same as traditional couples, I think their decision to take their ball and go home is counterproductive. It is contrary to the best interests of far more children who might, even if their position were correct, be ill-served growing up in a same-sex family. If their commitment is truly to the best wishes of the children, they'd continue to help find stable and loving homes for as many children as possible - not only acting in love and compassion for the children in their charge, but also strengthening the adoption process, which is a key component to pro-life/anti-abortion doctrine.

I don't think the government is being a goober for trying to look out for the equal rights and protection of legally recognized couples within their state. If I read the article correctly, the diocese could theoretically continue to participate in arranging for adoptions as a private religious entity - but based on the article, it sounds like this flap is over the diocese being the recipient of *public contracts to perform adoption services on behalf of the state,* and undoubtedly receiving state funds for doing so. As such, the state has the right - and the obligation - to mandate that the state's understanding of equality for its citizens, not the church's theological positions.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
You know, sometimes the equal rights mantra falls just short of pedantic bushwa.

What's more important? Protecting the equal rights of some or finding decent homes for children who have none?

Ok, the Catholoics are being exclusionary in their selection process. BFD. Anybody with two brain cells to rub together would figure any religious group would be exclusionary in the selection process according to the tenants of their religion.

So the government must intervene, so we don't step on somebody's toes. Talk about the perfect being the enemy of the good...sheesh!. Especially when the purveyors of the perfect in this case have such abysmal records of selectionism themselves.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
Quote:
 
Ok, the Catholoics are being exclusionary in their selection process. BFD. Anybody with two brain cells to rub together would figure any religious group would be exclusionary in the selection process according to the tenants of their religion.


Yes. But I believe their right to engage in exclusionary policies ends when they accept government contracts to perform services on behalf of the state - essentially being paid to operate as a quasi-state agency handling adoptions and foster care placement, not as an arm of the church. The article is very short and sketchy, but that's what I read in the article is the case here. When I contract with the government, I have to abide by their rules, for things far more mundane than providing the state's citizens equal protection under the law, regardless of religious convictions.

If further information became available that showed that the diocese was barred by the state from establishing its own criteria while operating as a private religious organization, completely outside of government contracting, then I'd agree, the government was improperly intruding on the diocese's rights. But that isn't what this article says.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Irresistible force, meet immovable object.

Who you blame depends on who you agree with, but it takes two to tango.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
And one to decide it isn't worth another 30-page thread arguing over. Roger, Wilco, and out.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
You can't leave now, I've prepared the 'Every sperm is sacred' video for a DEP moment!
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
Heh. Watch me. ^_^
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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Renauda
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HOLY CARP!!!
So long as the RCC organisation in Illinois maintains a policy not to qualify or adopt out to unmarried hetero couples I have no issue with its stand regarding same sex couples.
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sue
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HOLY CARP!!!
It's really quite simple. They either put the children in need as the top priority, or what their religion says they must do or not do.
They make it clear here that it is not the children's needs that tops the list. I don't see that there is much more to say. To whine and cry that the government is at fault is just a self serving cry for attention. Which is fine, but then let's keep the good deeds the church does in perspective.
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Renauda
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HOLY CARP!!!
I would like to add a qualifer to my previous statement as follows:

So long as the RCC organisation in Illinois or, for that matter, any religious based adopton agency, maintains a policy not to qualify or adopt out to secularly married hetero couples or common law hetero couples I have no issue with its stand regarding same sex couples.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
This is what happens when the government tries to apply one-size-fits-all actions to teh varied landscape of private and faith-based charitable initiatives. It ends up with no one being happy or well served.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
Jolly
May 27 2011, 06:46 PM
What's more important? Protecting the equal rights of some or finding decent homes for children who have none?
False dilemma, since the two are not in conflict.

In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
jon-nyc
May 28 2011, 02:42 AM
Jolly
May 27 2011, 06:46 PM
What's more important? Protecting the equal rights of some or finding decent homes for children who have none?
False dilemma, since the two are not in conflict.

To you it's not, but for these people it is a very real situation.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Copper
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Shortstop

Oh come on, the Catholic church clearly has a need to be ultra-conservative when it come to placing children with sexual deviants.

I mean extremely ultra-conservative.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Free Rider
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Fulla-Carp
As long as same-sex couples undergo the same scrutiny as hetero couples for adoption I see no reason to discriminate.

I disagree that the ideal environment for child raising is a traditional man/woman married couple. It is one of many environments that could be successful.

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Renauda
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HOLY CARP!!!
Copper
May 28 2011, 05:58 AM
Oh come on, the Catholic church clearly has a need to be ultra-conservative when it come to placing children with sexual deviants.

I mean extremely ultra-conservative.
So how should we define *extremely ultra-conservative* in this instance? How would you think it could be assessed?
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