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| If the rapture really happens tomorrow . . .; AKA . . . the Good Bye Thread | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 20 2011, 01:21 PM (12,101 Views) | |
| kenny | May 27 2011, 11:11 AM Post #776 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Yvonne Kriddle didn't know when to stop either. Actually, the similarities are rather disturbing. People can get so absorbed into the parallel world they've constructed and occupy that they are clueless to how nutso they appear to the rest of the world. |
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| John D'Oh | May 27 2011, 11:12 AM Post #777 |
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MAMIL
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What makes me laugh is nobody has a freaking clue what happens after we die. 32 pages simply to avoid saying 'I don't know, ask your bloody |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| Larry | May 27 2011, 11:37 AM Post #778 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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Interesting...... Ba'al Worship: "Ba'al worship's origins begin in Genesis 10 and 11 where we read of Noah’s Great grandson, NIMROD, and his wife SEMIRAMUS, who started the great pagan BABYLON MYSTERY RELIGION at the Tower of Babel. This great pagan religion was later known as ‘BAAL WORSHIP’ in the Old Testament, simply another name for Nimrod. The great book, TWO BABYLONS by Alexander Hislop gives us a little background on this Babylon Mystery Religion of ‘BAAL WORSHIP’ started by Nimrod and Semiramus. In this mysterious Babylonian Religious System, Nimrod and Semiramis, along with their priests, were the only ones who understood ‘The great mysteries of God’ and since it was the only true religion… all others were false… therefore, only the Babylonian Priests could forgive and absolve sins…and administer salvation. Salvation could be achieved thru various Sacraments performed during the person’s life time. These SACRAMENTS were so-called ‘Channels of grace’ whereby salvation could be achieved. These Sacraments, necessary to salvation ..began at birth with Infant Baptism, other sacraments throughout life, ending with a final anointing with oil at death to prepare one for the hereafter. Now Since the Babylonian Priest was the only one who could administer these ‘sacraments’, the person was ‘bound’ to the Babylonian system helplessly for life! The first essential sacrament Semiramis taught was Baptism by water. The fact that such “Baptism” was practiced 2000 years before it was even mentioned and practiced in Christianity is an established fact, and it can be traced right back to Babylon and Semiramis herself! The ancient historian Bryant (vol.3 p2l,84) traces this pagan baptism back to the practice of commemorating Noah and his 3 sons deliverance thru the waters of the flood, emerging from the ark and entering a New life. To commemorate this event, the Priests of Nimrod would ‘baptize’ new-born infants the fathers chose to keep, and they would become ‘born-again’ and become members of the Babylonian Mystery Religion. (Hislop,Two Babylons, p134) Armitage’s History (p73) explains the pagan civil law and social customs of that day. These pagans had no standard of morality as we now understand it. Their marriage rites were not on the basis ours are. One man might be the husband of a hundred women, and he might be the father of several hundred children. The mother had no right at all to determine whether the child she bore was to live or not, that was le ft up to the FATHER. Just as the farmer would go down to the pigpen and pick out the pigs he wanted to keep and do away with the runts, so was the father the one who decided if the child was to be kept and allowed to live. The mother could not even name the child if it was kept, the pagan priest did that. If the child was decided to be kept, the daddy would take it down to the pagan priest and the ceremony would be arranged. The Priest first must ‘exorcise’ evil spirits from the infant by anointing the baby’s head with OIL. With the oil the priest puts the occult mark of Tammuz on the child’s head by marking a “T” with the oil. (later to become the ‘Sign of the Cross) The Priest then put SALT and SPITTLE on the baby’s tongue to preserve it from future influence of evil spirits. “HOLY WATER” is now sprinkled or poured over the baby’s head, and the baby is said to be cleansed from any original sin and is now “born-again” and a member of the Babylonian Religion. This process was known as INFANT CHRISTENING and was practiced hundreds of years before Christ, (Hislop,pl38) and is found NOWHERE in the Bible. There is not a single example of a baby being ‘baptized’ or ‘christened’ in the Bible. At around the 3rd Century, traces of the Babylon Mystery Religion, now known as Baal Worship, infiltrates the Christian Church. Immediately, Bible believing Christians reject the idea of baptizing babies and Baptismal regeneration – the teaching that baptism is essential to salvation; or, if you want to turn it around, that water baptism saves the soul (or at least is a part of a person’s salvation). These Bible Believing Christians were labeled slanderously as ‘ANABAPTISTS’ because they rejected this idea of baptizing babies as pagan and not Scriptural. They would ‘RE-BAPTIZE these infants when they got older and trusted Christ as Savior! Thus the term, ANABAPTISTS…which meant “RE-BAPTIZERS”! It was later shortened to ‘Baptists’. So you see, Baptists got the their name at this time, and the issue that started the name Baptists and separated them was this issue of ‘Baby Baptism'. ANABAPTISTS’ were persecuted greatly because of this issue. When Emperor Constantine made ‘Christianity’ the official ‘STATE RELIGION of Rome, one of the FIRST LAWS passed was the law decreeing infant baptism as the law of the land in 416 A.D. That simply meant that everybody within a certain age limit had to conform to it. When they passed that law in 416 that every baby in the Roman Empire had to be baptized at the hands of an authorized Roman priest… OR ELSE! Those who disagreed with teaching and rejected it were soon slanderously called “ANABAPTISTS”, and they were persecuted without mercy for not conforming. Historian J.M.Carroll declares, ” For 30 miles on the road leading out of Rome were stakes with gory heads of ANAPTISTS….” Occasionally someone will say, “Don’t you think infant baptism is beautiful to look at?” A.A.Davis replies, “If you knew the history of that doctrine, where it came from and the bloodshed that it brought into the world, you would never watch another such service in your lifetime.” (THE BAPTIST STORY, p67). He quotes historian J.M. Carroll from his TRAIL OF BLOOD “no other doctrine that ever found its way into Christendom has caused so much BLOODSHED in this world as the doctrine of INFANT BAPTISM.” Armitage’s History (p7l-73) tells us that in the 6th century, Emperor Justin issued an edict commanding ALL UNBAPTIZED PARENTS to present themselves and their children for baptism at once. Leo III issued, another edict in-A.D. 723 demanding the forcible baptism of the Jews and Montanists (anabaptists). Toward the close of the 6th century the baptism of–.infants was turned to gain in the shape of FEES ($$$) paid for its administration; but, the charges soon became so enormous that the poor could not pay them. And yet lest their children should DIE unsaved, the frightened parents strained every nerve to get them baptized.” (Armitage’s history, p7l) He continues, “Suppose you owned a section of land with an oil well on it; you had a baby born into your home and you went to the priest to get the baby baptized. The priest would say I want the title to that section of land. When the thing was over, the priest would get the title to the land and the BABY would get a few drops of water on its head. We could spend pages here looking at the history books showing how the ANABAPTISTS (those who rejected infant baptism) were persecuted in ways almost too horrible to describe. Many were put in a special iron casket called the IRON MAIDEN, which had dozens of sharp spikes inside … or the anabaptist preacher who, in the 4th century, was laid upon the ground and a horse was hooked to each of his arms and feet, and the signal given so the horses would pull the pastor into 4 quarters…..Why? … because he believed it was wrong to baptize BABIES. (BAPTIST STORY, p109) The author continued to tell about those anabaptists who had HOT WAX poured into their EARS…or those who had their tongues pulled out with hot pincers. The wives of the anabaptists had their bodies mutilated in terrible ways, as parts of their bodies were cut off….Pregnant women had their stomachs ripped open and the offspring cast to wild hogs as husband was forced to watch. One anabaptist pastor was taken, his body CUT open, and ears of corn stuffed inside, and hungry dogs not fed for 4 days turned loose to devour the man’s entrails and corn inside. (BAPTIST STORY, p110) No wonder the Book of Revelation declared in Revelation 17:6 that this great HARLOT false religion had become ‘DRUNK with the BLOOD of the Saints’…Historian and Bible commentator Sir Robert Anderson estimated that thru out the middle ages OVER 40 MILLION people were murdered and martyred over this one doctrine of INFANT BAPTISM! To illustrate this great number of those anabaptists slain, Anderson said if you lined 40 million people in a line, four abreast and four feet apart, and they marched by at normal marching pace, it would take 4 years and 4 months for this number of people to march by. ROME LAID DOWN THE LAW.. ..INFANT BAPTISM ESSENTIAL! The General Council of Trent, Seventh Session (1547) Canons on the Sacraments in General: (a) “If anyone, shall say that the sacraments of the New Law were not all instituted by our Lord Jesus Christ, or that there are more or fewer than seven, namely baptism, confirmation, Eucharist, penance, extreme unction, orders, and matrimony, or that any one of these seven is not truly and intrinsically a sacrament – anathema sit.” (b) “If anyone shall say that the sacraments of the New Law are not necessary for salvation but are superfluous, and that without them or without the desire of them men obtain from God through faith alone the grace of justification, though all are not necessary for every individual anathema sit.” (c) “If anyone. shall say that by the sacraments of the New Law grace is not conferred ex opere operato, but that faith alone in the divine promise is sufficient to obtain grace – anathema sit.” THE BABYLON MYSTERY RELIGION AT ROME TAUGHT THAT EVEN LITTLE BABIES COULD NOT BE SAVED AND GO TO HEAVEN UNLESS THEY WERE BAPTIZED… The Priests of Rome taught-and still do-that it is NOT possible even for newly born infants to be saved so as to enjoy the delights of heaven unless they are baptized. The COUNCIL OF TRENT catechism states in black and white: “Infants, unless regenerated unto God thru the grace of BAPTISM, whether their parents be Christian or infidel, are born to eternal misery and perdition.” But what a horrible doctrine that was!! And what a contrast with the doctrinal beliefs of the anabaptists who believed that all those dying in infancy, whether baptized or unbaptized, are saved! Lorraine Boettner, in his ROMAN CATHOLICISM, p190, declared, “The Romish doctrine was so horrible and so unacceptable to the public that it was found necessary to invent a third realm, the Limbus Infantum… later shortened to ‘Limbo’…a place where unbaptized infants are sent, in which they are excluded from heaven but in which they suffer no positive PAIN. The Council of Trent and the Councils of Lyons and Florence declare positively that unbaptized infants are confined to this realm.” Boettner continues, “The primary purpose of the Church of Rome in excluding unbaptized infants from heaven is to force parents to commit their children to her as soon as possible … the pressure put on members of the Mother Church of Rome parents to see that their children are baptized EARLY is almost UNBELIEVABLE… ..a commitment which once she receives she never relinquishes.” (P 191) BABY BAPTISM THROUGH THE DARK AGES Consequently, as the teaching of baptismal of the Dark Ages which endured for more than twelve centuries – until the Protestant Reformation. During this time God had a remnant who remained faithful to Him; they never consented to the union of church and state, or to baptismal regeneration, or to infant baptism. These people were called by various names, but probably could better be summed up by their generic name, Anabaptists, meaning rebaptizers. These people ignored infant baptism and rebaptized those who had been saved through personal faith. The strange thing about these two diabolical doctrines of baptismal regeneration and infant baptism is that the great reformers (Martin Luther, for one) brought with them out of Rome these two dreaded errors – the union of church and state and infant baptism. Strangely enough, in those days not only did the Roman Catholic church persecute those who would not conform to its ways, but after the Lutheran church became the established church of Germany, it persecuted the nonconformists as well – of course, not as stringently so and not in such numbers as those before them. John Calvin in France, as well as Oliver Cromwell in England and John Knox in Scotland, stuck to the union of church and state and infant baptism and used their power, when they had power, to seek to force others to conform to their own views. BABY BAPTISM COMES TO AMERICA Unaware to a lot of people, this thing came to the Americas well in the early days of this republic. Before the Massachusetts Bay Colony was twenty years old, the following was decreed by statute: “If any person or persons within this jurisdiction shall either openly condemn or oppose the baptizing of infants, or go about secretly to seduce others from the approbation or use thereof, or shall purposely depart from the congregation at the administration of the ordinance after due time and means of conviction, every such person or persons shall be subject to banishment..” Religious persecution existed even in the early days of the United States of America. Roger Williams and others were banished – when banishment meant to go and live with the Indians – because they would not submit to the doctrine of baptismal regeneration or the baptizing of infants. However, it was the constitution of the Rhode Island Colony – founded by Roger Williams, John Clark, and others – that established religious liberty by law for the first time in thirteen hundred years (over the world). Thus it was that Rhode Island, founded by a small group of believers, was the first spot on earth where religious liberty became the law of the land. The settlement was made in 1638, and the colony was legally established in 1663. Virginia followed, to be the second, in 1786. -------------- No, I will have no part of your "I'll make you a Christian whether you agree with it or not" infant baptism. |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| kenny | May 27 2011, 11:41 AM Post #779 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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. . . but he took my paahkin spot . . . |
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| John D'Oh | May 27 2011, 11:42 AM Post #780 |
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MAMIL
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I've been called a Nimrod on more than one occasion - I didn't realise they were questioning the status of my baptism. I think I may claim religious persecution in the workplace and have their employment terminated. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| Larry | May 27 2011, 11:51 AM Post #781 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Believer%27s_baptism earlier patristical writings such as Didache and Tertullian[5] prescribe baptismal candidates to fasting, prayer, confessions, etc. before being allowed to be baptized. Tertullian (son of a presbyter) writes, "Christians are made, not born." Several ecclesiastical histories seem to omit any discussion of infant baptism. Eusebius of Caesarea (describing 1–320 AD) gives ample discussion of baptisms, but makes no reference to the baptism of infants. Defenders of infant baptism have attempted to trace the practice to the New Testament era, but generally acknowledge that no unambiguous evidence exists that the practice existed prior to the second century.[4] The oldest surviving manual of church discipline, the Didache, envisions the baptism of adults. Advocates of believer's baptism contend that non-Biblical records are not authoritative, and that no evidence exists from the Bible or early Christian literature that infant baptism was practiced by the apostles. Theologians from churches that teach paedobaptism point to Jesus' statement that children should be allowed to come to him. Advocates of believer's baptism counter that Jesus blessed the children and did not baptize them. In fact, he is not recorded as having baptised anyone |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| Renauda | May 27 2011, 12:04 PM Post #782 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I'm hoping this thread is not a foretaste of it. |
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| John D'Oh | May 27 2011, 12:06 PM Post #783 |
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MAMIL
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Heaven might be sitting around drinking, watching people arguing about religion. Hell will be sitting arguing about religion, and having drunk people watch. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| kenny | May 27 2011, 12:16 PM Post #784 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Nyuck Nyuck Nyuck, then clearly we're all dead. Cheers! Drink up! . . . well some of us.
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| kluurs | May 27 2011, 01:02 PM Post #785 |
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Fulla-Carp
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Anything that humans touch seems to get corrupted - even with the best of intentions. One of my friends used to say that as human beings we begin to make mistakes the minute we wake up in the morning. It is what humans do - even humans committed to a living a righteous life. The evidence is everywhere. At best we can strive to be better - but i doubt that I could survive judging by the standards by which I sometimes judge others. I'm not going to worry about debating a whole lot of issues when I could see the Lord saying "Ken - you were given many talents and advantages - how did you live your life? You had a really nice piano - but how many children might that have helped had you given that money to charity or how did you love those who were your enemies or why did you think that injunction against divorce didn't apply to you or acting in my name - how much harm did you do to the faith of others?" One of the things I marvel at in the bible is how Christ treated everyone with love. He treated people who acknowledged themselves as sinners with love - but he loved the Pharisees as well. These were some of the most pious and religiously dedicated people out there - but his love to them was to say wake up - your sense of righteousness is your obstacle to God's grace. Christians (religious) people have done horrendous things over history- initiating wars, torture, genocide, persecution, jailing, etc. This doesn't help the unbeliever, let alone those who are trying to believe. That some of the leaders of the church have engorged themselves with wealth, committed attrocities against children, etc - doesn't help the non-believer. I can't control what others do - and as a certified hypocrite, I struggle to do right on my own. The early Christians seemed to inspire non-believers with their charity, compassion and devotion to Christ. I don't do nearly as well. I pray that there are some people doing better than me. |
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| sue | May 27 2011, 01:24 PM Post #786 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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| ivorythumper | May 27 2011, 01:51 PM Post #787 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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+1
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| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| Axtremus | May 27 2011, 01:53 PM Post #788 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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How many times do I have to tell you? There is eternal supply of good beer and great sex in the after life. |
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| Renauda | May 27 2011, 02:35 PM Post #789 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Good enough for me. I know an olive branch when I see one. Time for me to bury the hatchet and try to listen rather than react with hostility towards everything IT writes. Thanks for the birthday gift. It is appreciated. |
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| Kincaid | May 27 2011, 02:48 PM Post #790 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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He's just trickin' you. |
| Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006. | |
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| Renauda | May 27 2011, 03:08 PM Post #791 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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No I don't think so. It's worth the effort for me to reciprocate. |
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| sue | May 27 2011, 03:35 PM Post #792 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Happy Birthday, Renauda |
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| big al | May 27 2011, 07:08 PM Post #793 |
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Bull-Carp
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Your birthday, too? Happy birthday. Big Al |
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Location: Western PA "jesu, der simcha fun der man's farlangen." -bachophile | |
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| AndyD | May 27 2011, 10:36 PM Post #794 |
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Senior Carp
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After reading the first ten pages and the last four, I'd decided most of you people would rather argue than listen. From this and other threads, some of you obviously know far more science than I, some far more theology. But John D'oh is simply wrong, however much I enjoy his humour, there is knowledge to be had. John, I can no longer offer to take you to witness my parents sit in a seance as I have described in other threads, my father has passed over, my mother is now 83. Nor do I actively practice, having no doubts and no real need, however much I miss Dad. If anyone asked, I'd say go to a spiritualist church, but be very cautious. After a while I'd join a small (3-4) free group of mature people who I considered sincere truth searchers, and who sit with open minds. Be patient. And if you ever see a trumpet levitate and hear a voice come through it, feel privileged. If you are ever able to write automatic writing, feel privileged. |
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Every morning the soul is once again as good as new, and again one offers it to one's brothers & sisters in life. | |
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| John D'Oh | May 28 2011, 03:26 AM Post #795 |
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MAMIL
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Isn't the idea that we can communicate with those who have died in direct contradiction with most Christian teaching? |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| jon-nyc | May 28 2011, 03:27 AM Post #796 |
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Cheers
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If so, isn't that in direct contradiction to praying to saints and mary? |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| John D'Oh | May 28 2011, 03:54 AM Post #797 |
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MAMIL
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Why don't they make a movie to show everyone? |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| Mikhailoh | May 28 2011, 04:00 AM Post #798 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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They can't get the rights. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| John D'Oh | May 28 2011, 04:46 AM Post #799 |
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MAMIL
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If Sam Goldwyn and Louis B Mayer are up there, God probably doesn't have much say in the matter by now. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| Mikhailoh | May 28 2011, 04:57 AM Post #800 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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That's a mighty big IF, pardner.
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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. . . well some of us.



11:27 AM Jul 11