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If the rapture really happens tomorrow . . .; AKA . . . the Good Bye Thread
Topic Started: May 20 2011, 01:21 PM (12,121 Views)
Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
Axtremus
May 23 2011, 02:59 PM
Dewey
May 23 2011, 02:45 PM
KlavierBauer
May 23 2011, 02:40 PM
Quote:
 
perhaps KB can source the earliest use of that term

Yeah - no.
I'm done.
Smart man. ^_^
Quitter! :D
No - just another smart man, who knows the value of his time. ^_^
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
Quote:
 
Quitter!

Yeah well, when people tell you how they really feel it sort of ruins it.
All of it...
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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Renauda
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HOLY CARP!!!
Larry
May 23 2011, 03:02 PM
As for communion, Jesus was speaking metaphorically. He did not intend for anyone to think they were being cannibals. Once again, you have failed to show me any scripture that support the notion of cannibalism.

Even I don't consider transubstantiation as cannibalism. I don't believe in it for a nano second, but I do not think it to be cannibalism.

I do however think the scriptural literalism of some protestants is in reality a mental disease that leads to raving idiocy.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Dewey
May 23 2011, 01:59 PM
KB, you're exactly correct. The term "catholic" does in fact mean "universal," and it is used to refer to the entire, universal, Church. Yes, Roman Catholics and Protestants differ over what constitutes a true "church," even while the RCC makes a distinction that the people in what they refuse to accept are "churches" are still Christians.

Obviously, I flatly reject the RCC position that the body that I am a member of is not a church. On the other hand, both Catholics and Protestants understand that the entire body of believers - that is, the "universal church" - is made up of Roman Catholics, and Orthodox, and Protestants, and a few other minor players as well. The term "Universal Church" - that is, the "catholic Church" - simply means the entirety of the body of Christian believers. When my congregation says the Apostles' Creed, we say that we believe in "the holy catholic Church," and we do so without batting an eyelash, because we understand the meaning of the term.
I am curious how you reconcile that view with the early Church's use of the term from Ignatius' letter to the Smyrnaeans. Do you see your Presbyterian communion reflected in the various letters of Ignatius which evince what the early Church looked like, practiced, and taught? Or does it not matter to you what the disciple of St John taught us?
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
KlavierBauer
May 23 2011, 02:40 PM
Quote:
 
perhaps KB can source the earliest use of that term

Yeah - no.
I'm done.
Tis a pity -- I was hoping for a real answer since your Church claims that term as descriptive of all true apostolic Christians.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
Quote:
 
Tis a pity -- I was hoping for a real answer since your Church claims that term as descriptive of all true apostolic Christians.

Sorry to disappoint, but feel free to check out lmgtfy.com for the answer.
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Larry
May 23 2011, 02:30 PM
Quote:
 
Sorry, Larry, the scholarship does not support your claims. If "One of my biggest problems with Catholicism is the belief in papal succession, based on Peter being the first "pope", when there is absolutely no evidence to support the claim that Peter was ever in Rome." -- then you should be ready to set aside that obstacle.


Catholic scholarship doesn't support my claims, but Catholic scholarship is rather lacking in subjectivity. There is no evidence that Peter was ever in Rome. Sorry.
A whole lot of non-Catholic scholarship also supports this claim.

You are of course being disingenuous. Where else has any place claimed that Peter died? What do you make of the archeological investigations of the "bones of Peter" at the Vatican -- that they are of a first century man who was killed and had his feet hacked off (conforming to the account that he was crucified upside down)?

Is this all part of a massive Vatican conspiracy, and that they paid off secular scientists to substantiate their story? That the ancient graffiti uncovered in the 1940s indicting that Peter was in that ancient Roman cemetery over which the Vatican basilica was built also made up in the 40s? That the pre-Constantinian archeological artifacts were manufactured in the 1940s?

So all the archeological evidence is an elaborate hoax, and no atheistic scholar has been able to discredit it?

The things you have to believe in order to reject a readily provable scientific and historical account are amazing.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
Renauda
May 23 2011, 03:12 PM
Larry
May 23 2011, 03:02 PM
As for communion, Jesus was speaking metaphorically. He did not intend for anyone to think they were being cannibals. Once again, you have failed to show me any scripture that support the notion of cannibalism.

Even I don't consider transubstantiation as cannibalism. I don't believe in it for a nano second, but I do not think it to be cannibalism.

I do however think scriptural literalism of some protestants really is a mental disease that leads to raving idiocy.
Here's a bit of inconsistancy that drives me nuts with some protestants. Some are Biblical Literalists, yet will point to the very arguments that IT posted regarding transubstantiation and call it metaphor. They will also point to The Revelation of John, or the prohecies in Daniel and other places and discuss and point out all the symbology. I find it unnerving how they switch modes without skipping a beat wherever it's convenient.

That being said, IMO, the discussions of Jesus regarding the consumption of his body and metaphorical, in reference to the crucifixion.
Edited by Luke's Dad, May 23 2011, 03:29 PM.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
Quote:
 
I am curious how you reconcile that view with the early Church's use of the term from Ignatius' letter to the Smyrnaeans.


Well then, you're going to have to remain curious - or you could use KB's recommended link. ^_^
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
blech. Just can't type today.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
I haven't been arguing with you about where Peter died. I said he never was in Rome. So let me clarify it for you - Peter never set up the church in Rome, he had nothing to do with the church in Rome, he was not the first pope, he was never appointed head of the church, and there is nothing scriptural about succession, regardless of whether one is talking about Peter or anyone else.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Larry
May 23 2011, 03:02 PM
IT, I do not disagree that baptism is important. It's not what saves you, but it's important. What I was talking about when I said the Catholic view wasn't supported by scripture is infant baptism - and you have yet to show me any scripture to support that.

As for communion, Jesus was speaking metaphorically. He did not intend for anyone to think they were being cannibals. Once again, you have failed to show me any scripture that support the notion of cannibalism.

It's not cannibalism, Larry. But even if that is the only way you can grasp it, it is still the Word of Jesus in John 6. You are going away because you find the teaching too hard to take. Jesus did not try to stop them and say "hold on, fellers, I was just speaking metaphorically". Nor will he stop you, though he will welcome you to participate in his Body and Blood at the Holy Eucharist if you are received into the Catholic (or Orthodox) Church.

And you have to argue that infant baptism is wrong -- not that its not scriptural. And you never did answer about those "households" that were baptised, or where Paul aligns baptism to circumcision as the sign of the new covenant.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Dewey
May 23 2011, 03:29 PM
Quote:
 
I am curious how you reconcile that view with the early Church's use of the term from Ignatius' letter to the Smyrnaeans.


Well then, you're going to have to remain curious - or you could use KB's recommended link. ^_^
I doubt even Google can answer how you personally reconcile that. :lol2:

And I get why you don't want to go there. I wouldn't either. ^_^
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
I will address the erroneous Catholic views of baptism and communion later.

Right now, I have a dinner date.
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Larry
May 23 2011, 03:31 PM
I haven't been arguing with you about where Peter died. I said he never was in Rome. So let me clarify it for you - Peter never set up the church in Rome, he had nothing to do with the church in Rome, he was not the first pope, he was never appointed head of the church, and there is nothing scriptural about succession, regardless of whether one is talking about Peter or anyone else.

You said he was never in Rome. So where was he? He must have been SOMEWHERE and have died SOMEWHERE if not in Rome. We have accounts of all the other apostles -- why not Peter? Why does no other city claim that is where he lived and died???? You keep avoiding the obvious.

And yes, he was appointed head of the Church. He was given the keys by Christ (an old testament symbol of stewardship) and told that upon him would be built the Church. Again, protestants try to claim "his faith" etc. -- basically anything but the actual person Jesus was talking to -- but of course they HAVE to argue against it because of the implications of what Jesus actually said leading to the role of Peter in the early Church.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Larry
May 23 2011, 03:34 PM
I will address the erroneous Catholic views of baptism and communion later.

Right now, I have a dinner date.
Can't wait Larry -- but if you don't have actual scriptural arguments for why infant baptism is wrong and the Eucharist is not really the Body and Blood of Christ, don't waste your time. 'k?

So here's the ground rules: you can give only actual scriptural arguments for your position, and you have to answer all of my scriptural arguments with other scriptural arguments. OK?
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Now I'm confused.
I though Saturday's rapture would answer this but apparently Jesus was busy . . . so. . . I ask our four Christian Gladiators . . . which group, praytell, are the TRUE Christians, the BEST Christians, the most RIGHT ON Christans, the most BORN AGAIN Christians, the most RIGHTEOUS Christians, the Christians that are the CORRECT ones, the SUPERIOR ones, the Christians who will go to heaven?

KB answer here ___________________

Dewey answer here ________________

Larry answer here _________________

IT answer here ____________________

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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Larry
May 23 2011, 03:34 PM
I will address the erroneous Catholic views of baptism and communion later.

Right now, I have a dinner date.


Doesn't that Bible that you keep saying you follow say you should marry the woman before you boink her?
You keeeeeeeeeeeep repeating how you FOLLOW THE BIBBBBBBLE and only the BIBBBBBBLE!

Dinner date is a code word for boink . . . no?

Please explain, or tell me to F off and that your inconsistency is groovy becuase you pick and choose which part of that BBBBBBIIIIIBBBBBLLLLLLEEEEEE you feel like following, just like everyone else.

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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
I see the meek are getting into it with each other again.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Renauda
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HOLY CARP!!!
Indeed, rumour has it we will be called upon to take up the cross and join the crusade! Larry's coming out as a Waldensian.
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
John D'Oh
May 23 2011, 05:04 PM
I see the meek are getting into it with each other again.
Don't blame them.
They do all this for Christ, so they are not responsible.

Don't upset them, or they might starting attending commercial jet flight schools.
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Copper
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Shortstop
kenny
May 23 2011, 04:52 PM
Now I'm confused.

Now and forever.

A sad case.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
Quote:
 
so. . . I ask our four Christian Gladiators . . . which group, praytell, are the TRUE Christians...


I could think of a number of things that would come into play in that answer, but one of the most significant indicators would be that they're the ones who love you even while they're being ridiculed.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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Frank_W
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Resident Misanthrope
Kenny doesn't really want an answer. He just wants people to be willing targets for his hatred of Christians and Christianity, and his nonsense about Christians attending commercial flight schools, was an allusion to 9/11, when a more accurate claim would be about the Oklahoma City bombing. :rolleyes:
Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
kenny
May 23 2011, 04:52 PM
Now I'm confused.
I though Saturday's rapture would answer this but apparently Jesus was busy . . . so. . . I ask our four Christian Gladiators . . . which group, praytell, are the TRUE Christians, the BEST Christians, the most RIGHT ON Christans, the most BORN AGAIN Christians, the most RIGHTEOUS Christians, the Christians that are the CORRECT ones, the SUPERIOR ones, the Christians who will go to heaven?

KB answer here ___________________

Dewey answer here ________________

Larry answer here _________________

IT answer here ____________________

What do you intend by "Christian Gladiators"? Is that a term of belittlement? Are you trying to show disdain to us? Are you meaning it to be an insult or a term of derision? Or do you mean something else?

Please answer, it is really important.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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