Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to The New Coffee Room. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Frum on the Ryan plan
Topic Started: Apr 8 2011, 11:01 AM (166 Views)
jon-nyc
Member Avatar
Cheers


http://theweek.com/bullpen/column/213912/a-budget-that-cant-budge/1
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Axtremus
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Hey R2,

Does that Frum piece pass as "serious consideration" for Ryan's "serious plan" ? :blink:
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Kincaid
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
From the article:

Quote:
 
Why are there no revenue enhancements of any kind — not even fees or excise taxes that have no negative impact on incentives or savings?


How can he suggest that fees and excise taxes have no negative impact on incentives and savings? By golly, if this is some kind of neglected revenue stream that has no downside let's fund the entire gov't by fees and excise taxes so that we can eliminate all sales, property and income tax. Might it be that fees are charged direct to consumers and excise taxes are passed on to consumers and then said consumers will have various disincentives and will have less discretionary income to save?

Quote:
 
The deficit grows because the deficit reduction plan includes a big additional tax cut to upper-income taxpayers.


Why do people always talk as if tax cuts are in some kind of vacuum and have no effect on economic growth, and therefore employment, and ultimately on increased gov't revenues? This seems so disingenuous.

Quote:
 
More surprising still, the debt reduction plan actually increases the debt over the medium term — by even more President Obama’s budget would.


Again, might not the deficit actually shrink if tax cuts spur economic growth and unemployment drops and more money pours into federal coffers - kind of like it did in Clinton's second term?

Quote:
 
The real message of the Ryan plan is: Upper-income tax cuts now; spending cuts for the poor now; more deficits now; spending cuts for middle-income people much later; spending cuts for today's elderly, never.

Jobs first, deficit later is actually the right timing of priorities.


So, how do you get jobs first? By tax cuts and spending cuts.

Quote:
 
But the upper-income tax cuts of 2001 and 2003 markedly failed to translate into higher incomes for ordinary Americans. The Ryan plan offers no reason to hope that another round of the same medicine will deliver better results.


This feels like a bait and switch. I thought he was talking about jobs, not higher incomes.

Quote:
 
Don’t all the polls show that Medicare and even Medicaid are popular, and that more tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans are not?


I don't know about polls. I like Medicare well enough, it is just tough - maybe impossible - to swallow as we face the baby boom moving through it. Show me a better way I certainly can get on board with it (I remain unconvinced about Ryan's voucher system, but have not heard a complete discussion on it). Medicaid? Not popular with me. Much too much fraud and abuse. Tax cuts for the wealthy - I have no problem with that, seeing as they will still be paying the most taxes.
Edited by Kincaid, Apr 8 2011, 12:23 PM.
Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
jon-nyc
Member Avatar
Cheers
Kincaid
Apr 8 2011, 12:20 PM
Why do people always talk as if tax cuts are in some kind of vacuum and have no effect on economic growth, and therefore employment, and ultimately on increased gov't revenues? This seems so disingenuous.
Its anything but. For a reduction in the top marginal rate from 35 to 25% to be even revenue neutral would require a 4x multiplier on GDP. Its disingenuous to assume such a figure. (and its always just assumed - it is today the first axiom of conservatism).

The so-called Laffer effect makes a lot of sense - if tax rates are very high. To imagine it still holding true at 25-35% is stretching credulity.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
George K
Member Avatar
Finally
Krauthammer
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
John D'Oh
Member Avatar
MAMIL
jon-nyc
Apr 8 2011, 12:36 PM
Kincaid
Apr 8 2011, 12:20 PM
Why do people always talk as if tax cuts are in some kind of vacuum and have no effect on economic growth, and therefore employment, and ultimately on increased gov't revenues? This seems so disingenuous.
Its anything but. For a reduction in the top marginal rate from 35 to 25% to be even revenue neutral would require a 4x multiplier on GDP. Its disingenuous to assume such a figure. (and its always just assumed - it is today the first axiom of conservatism).

The so-called Laffer effect makes a lot of sense - if tax rates are very high. To imagine it still holding true at 25-35% is stretching credulity.
If they reduced taxation to 0%, then the economy would go into an infinite growth loop, and everybody's bank accounts would literally explode.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
jon-nyc
Member Avatar
Cheers
Net-net, Krauthammer agrees with my original assessment that its DOA.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
kathyk
Member Avatar
Pisa-Carp
I love the closing line. :lol2:
Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
« Previous Topic · The New Coffee Room · Next Topic »
Add Reply