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| Australians hate the phrase "passed away."; And I don't get it. | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 6 2011, 06:40 PM (1,577 Views) | |
| Aqua Letifer | Apr 6 2011, 06:40 PM Post #1 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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In one of my classes, we looked at a couple of samples from stories about death and dying. One in particular was an excerpt from a book the professor herself published, about how there really aren't good words to describe the process. "We have a tendency these days to sort of euphemize dying, and don't really want to talk about it. We make up other words for it instead, like 'passed.' That's a bad habit we've picked up from America, this 'passing' business. It's shoddy language." Yeah thanks. So's your accent, what do you think of that. This week, I'm turning in my first formal assignment for another class, and here's what it says in our student style guide:
Seriously? 'Passed away,' that's a big problem? That's what you like to get hung up about? 'Passed away'? I now greatly regret my word choice in an e-mail I sent to my professors a few weeks back, about missing a day of class so I could talk to my parents and relatives. Here's what I wish I said instead:
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| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| apple | Apr 6 2011, 07:02 PM Post #2 |
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one of the angels
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i love the word 'eschew' i love euphemisms too apple, who is kind of glad that Aqua, I mean Samus did not witness her poetry daze ..and again, sorry about your Grandma. I am so glad your are studying writing. You are, aren't you? I have a degree in poetry (ha ha) from the U of Chicago.. not that it got me anywhere. I designed my own degree. |
| it behooves me to behold | |
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| schindler | Apr 6 2011, 07:06 PM Post #3 |
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Fulla-Carp
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Don't sweat it, Jimmy. Most profs have stupid quirks which they profess to be the ultimate TRUTH about WRITING. I know this bugs you on a personal level though, because of your grandma. Hang tough, man. Oh, sorry, was that an unacceptable euphemism? |
| We're all mad here! | |
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| apple | Apr 6 2011, 07:09 PM Post #4 |
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one of the angels
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you know... it bugs me too, the language of dying. I belong to a forum of people with advanced cancer and euphemisms abound. I can see why avoiding them would be advantageous. That said, I now know what to say to people when I write condolences and such. |
| it behooves me to behold | |
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| John D'Oh | Apr 6 2011, 07:09 PM Post #5 |
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MAMIL
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I don't like 'passed away' either. It's very namby-pamby. 'Snuffed it' is a much better phrase, as are 'kicked the bucket', 'bought the farm', 'shuffled off this mortal coil' etc. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| Mark | Apr 6 2011, 07:14 PM Post #6 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Augured in. |
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___.___ (_]===* o 0 When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells | |
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| John D'Oh | Apr 6 2011, 07:17 PM Post #7 |
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MAMIL
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Gone to sing with the choir invisible. Popped his clogs. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| ivorythumper | Apr 6 2011, 08:17 PM Post #8 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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returned to the nitrogen cycle |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| sue | Apr 6 2011, 08:52 PM Post #9 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I am really sorry about your grandmother, Aqua. But I too hate the "passed" phrase. They died. It's sad, it's terminal. Why try to pretty it up? |
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| ivorythumper | Apr 6 2011, 09:14 PM Post #10 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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Even worse is "passed over". ugh. |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| Aqua Letifer | Apr 6 2011, 09:21 PM Post #11 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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Eh, it's alright. But I fully support the euphemism. If I see somebody at the supermarket who just lost her husband, and I didn't make it to the funeral, I'm not ever going to say, "sorry Harry's dead, Edith!" Death is a touchy subject and I believe it absolutely deserves to be. |
| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| Aqua Letifer | Apr 6 2011, 09:23 PM Post #12 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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Maybe it was! But neither you nor I give a sh!t so it's all good. ![]() This is the same prof. who seems to find a way to take a dig at America/Ameicans in every weekly class so I suppose I'm just getting a little tired of taking it. |
| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| ivorythumper | Apr 6 2011, 09:26 PM Post #13 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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I had that all the time when I was studying in England -- someone always taking cheap shots at America. My Rotary host would comment on how racist America was. "Yeah? when's the last time you had a black person over to dinner?", I asked him. |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| Aqua Letifer | Apr 6 2011, 09:35 PM Post #14 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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Well, stupidly, I didn't expect that here. And keep in mind the type of folks I interact with regularly in my classes, the whole city's not like this. One thing I will say, when I was leaving and talking to Americans about Australia, all I got were questions. How cold does it get there? Do they have summer when we have winter? Do they have something like the metro? You gonna see any kangaroos? Nobody's been over there, y'see. And of course neither had I but everyone was totally open about their lack of knowledge. Here, when I mention where I'm from, all I get are comments. Oh, it's weird there. People are mean. They're all the same. It's oppressive. Americans are all fat and lazy and shoot each other and steal oil from unscrupulous regimes and subject the world to their horrible sitcoms. Seems plenty of people are more than willing to make value judgments about a place they've only seen on TV. |
| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| Kincaid | Apr 6 2011, 09:36 PM Post #15 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I love euphemisms that get so divorced from the hard reality that it is difficult to know what the person is really saying. Ha! Remember the doctor with the poor communication skills in all the Arrested Development episodes? |
| Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006. | |
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| Aqua Letifer | Apr 6 2011, 09:37 PM Post #16 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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I love calling people out on that, yes.
Oh great call, yes! I need to find DVDs of that show here.
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| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| Dewey | Apr 6 2011, 09:53 PM Post #17 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Dislike of that term isn't limited to Australia. In fact, that exact point is taught to us in our pastoral education. The term "passed away" is questionable theologically, but more importantly, it's so nebulous that using it tends to diminish the full nature and finality of a person's death. A loved one died, dammit, and that hurts, and it's loss, and that loss has to be grieved and mourned for what it is - someone has died. Of course, as believers, we believe that the person continues to exist, but to us, and relative to our daily living, they haven't "passed," they're dead. Anything that keeps us from confronting that reality squarely is doing a disservice to the survivor. Referring to someone's "death" actually helps a person to come to grips with things; referring to their "passing" helps them to avoid it. I know that seems weird semantics, but I've seen it in reality. |
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| Aqua Letifer | Apr 6 2011, 10:00 PM Post #18 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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I would think, Dewey, that as believers it'd be an apt, even preferable way to describe it. Pass. From passen. To move or advance. To leave, depart, and to cross over. It seems a more complete description of what's actually going on than mere "death." EDIT Also, this isn't a recent thing and Americans most certainly did NOT invent this phrase. An example from 1393: "Whan that he passed was, The Cardinals..Gon forto chese a newe Pope." 1398: "Hereby men passen and dyen and neuere abyden in þe same state." 1449: "Nowe thei bothe be pasyd..." 1456: "...I wol haue at my dirige, when I am passed the worlde..." We've been saying this for hundreds of years. |
| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| Kincaid | Apr 6 2011, 10:09 PM Post #19 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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| Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006. | |
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| ivorythumper | Apr 6 2011, 10:33 PM Post #20 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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Kincaid -- those are hilarious! ![]() Aqua -- good lesson! |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| Aqua Letifer | Apr 6 2011, 10:48 PM Post #21 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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MED: For the serious grammar dick. |
| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| Ballyhoo | Apr 6 2011, 11:56 PM Post #22 |
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Middle Aged Carp
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I've never known anyone to have a problem with "passed away".
Edited by Ballyhoo, Apr 7 2011, 12:18 AM.
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| Dewey | Apr 7 2011, 12:23 AM Post #23 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Aqua - unlike your Aussie instructor, I didn't think that the term was an American invention and I definitely think complaining about it in order to sling mud at Americans is silly. And I know it's been around for a long time. But the problem here is that by coming up with the term to "pass away" is meant merely to explain just one part of the actual meaning of the word "death," and deliberately to try to make death seem "softer." Death, by definition, means the cessation of physical life and the continuation of the person in life after this life. The term is a two-sided coin; there's no need to use a term that emphasizes only one side of the coin at the expense of acknowledging the reality of the other side. The theological problem isn't that one isn't "passing" to a different form of life, but rather, in the verbal diminishing of the reality that human being is body and spirit - and that death is a part of life; a part which has both eternal and earthly consequences, eternal reward as well as earthly sorrow. Before he raised his friend Lazarus from the dead, Jesus allowed himself to grieve and to mourn his death. And when he had to explain Lazarus' condition to the disciples before they left for Bethany, he told them, "Lazarus is dead," not "Lazarus has passed away." "Passing away" is an incomplete description of what has happened. Feh to the term.
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| ivorythumper | Apr 7 2011, 01:12 AM Post #24 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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Dewey, while I agree with you about the euphemism, I don't think that "death" implies "continuation of the person in life after this life." Dogs and cats and plants die, yet they are not considered as having immortal souls or continuing in a life after this life. So I am not sure it has any particular theological importance. Death has a sense of finality, imo, which perhaps does address the pastoral issue you deal with about helping people deal with the reality as part of the healthy grieving process, but for the Christian death is not a final state. And interestingly, even Jesus uses a euphemism when he said that Lazarus had fallen asleep -- when they didn't get the euphemism, he told them Lazarus was dead. Do you have any insight on how early "cemetery" -- κοιμητήριον -- was used? Is it pre Christian or was it adopted by Christians to allude to the sleep of death from which we awake? |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| Dewey | Apr 7 2011, 02:28 AM Post #25 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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IT, in this sense I'm talking about the definition of human death, which is something distinct from other forms of animal or vegetable death. The two-sidedness of death is inherent in humans. But yes, the pastoral issue is of more significance to me: if a person wants, with the noblest of intentions, to supposedly make a surviving loved one feel better, they will say "passed away" to soften the blow of the word "death." However, from a pastoral viewpoint, the person will actually be better off, and more quickly, by not giving the person space to deny or delay coming to terms with the bluntness of death, and frankly, the pain of the grieving process. The quicker the coming to full terms with the loss, the quicker a person can reestablish a new balance in his/her life. That's more compassionate than trying to shield someone from something that ultimately has to be accepted anyway. As far as Jesus' words, he did first use the euphemism "to sleep" - and it created confusion and misunderstanding, so Jesus had to be more blunt. To me, that's an argument for not starting with euphemisms for death to begin with. Kind of a related, darkly funny story about death language: A patient was once brought into the hospital ED. She came into the hospital in "full arrest" (think DOA). When the next of kin - a sister - was ascertained, the doctor called her to let her know that her sister had arrived in the hospital in full arrest. He then passed her off to the chaplain. As the chaplain spoke with her, it became more and more obvious that she didn't understand that her sister was dead. She asked, "Well, what's going on? Is she handcuffed to the gurney? I know she's been in lots of trouble before; is it drugs again?" In his own mind, the doctor thought he'd been very clear to the woman by saying that she'd arrived in full arrest, but the sister understood that term very differently. So the chaplain had to tell the woman bluntly that her sister was dead. She understood that word. I don't know the history of the word cemetery - and right now, I'm too tired to grab a lexicon - maybe |
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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