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Should US women serve on front lines?
Topic Started: Jan 15 2011, 11:27 PM (1,563 Views)
John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Rainman
Jan 17 2011, 01:31 PM
Quote:
 
D'Oh:
They were morons, in other words.


No, they were not. My Dad (Estonian) could speak 7 languages, he was conscripted into the SS (join, or be shot) and was to be a translator for Russian and English. While training in the Alps, he caught a ski under a guy in front of him that fell, and broke his leg. While in the hospital, a young Estonian gal heard there was an Esto, she visited him, they fell in love. . . my eventual parents. All of the men in his platoon were killed in the war, it was only because he broke his leg that he survived. When they eventually made it to the U.S., it was quite literally with the clothes on their backs. Matter of fact, I still have a picture of them, published in the local newspaper in 1949. My mom was wearing a coat she had made out of an army blanket. My Dad went on to be a Latin teacher at a private college, plus they later started their own successful business.

Morons? It's lost a bit in translation, but, "sweep under your own porch first."
My apologies. However, it has to be said your father doesn't sound like the typical SS soldier. I also suspect that the conscripts and the volunteers were somewhat different in their world view.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
kenny
Jan 17 2011, 10:58 AM
Larry maybe you're right but Darwinism is in play here.
All the men who think of women as delicate things to protect will get killed off.
Eventually Darwinism will replace them with men who respect woman as equals.

It may not even take that long since some countries today put women on the front lines.
Imagine a battle between US and country X... with US males ineffective because of their primitive attitudes and behavior around female troops.

A country with stupid sexist policies may end up learning its lesson the hard way by losing to a country who understand woman are equal.

Progress. :P
Interesting to consider Darwinianism in regard to homosexuality... that gene if it exists should steadily be eradicated.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
Kenny
 
Even with today's technology isn't an army potentially twice as large a significant tactical advantage?


Today, and thousands of years ago, this question depended entirely upon the people that make up that larger army.

Thermopylae is a great example of a significantly larger army having real trouble fighting people who had something besides life to lose (we all lose that after all).
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
Rainman: I hear you - my wife's grandfather was also Estonian, and was conscripted into the Russian army, was then captured as a Russian POW, and conscripted into the German army to dig trenches.
Was a very smart man, and had no allegiance to either side that he was forced to serve.
I'd imagine there were a lot of stories like this, especially from Estonians.
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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Rainman
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Fulla-Carp
My daughter (Navy) has told me there are a lot of creeps in the Navy, since it is mostly male.

However, she has lots of guy friends, and has told me the good guys protect the girls from the creeps.

Is this really so difficult to understand for those that blindly embrace social engineering? Larry is spot-on, in my view. He does not try to pretend the obvious does not exist.

And another thing: for every soldier kicking in a door (like my nephew), there are hundreds if not thousands of military (including females) that provide the support and supply chains (and medical, etc.) stretching all the way around the world. These young people are also to be thanked for their service, what they do is essential and should not be dismissed.
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
Rainman
 
My daughter (Navy) has told me there are a lot of creeps in the Navy, since it is mostly male.

However, she has lots of guy friends, and has told me the good guys protect the girls from the creeps.

Is this really so difficult to understand for those that blindly embrace social engineering? Larry is spot-on, in my view. He does not try to pretend the obvious does not exist.

And another thing: for every soldier kicking in a door (like my nephew), there are hundreds if not thousands of military (including females) that provide the support and supply chains (and medical, etc.) stretching all the way around the world. These young people are also to be thanked for their service, what they do is essential and should not be dismissed.


Worth repeating.
Edited by KlavierBauer, Jan 17 2011, 01:49 PM.
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Rainman
Jan 17 2011, 01:47 PM

And another thing: for every soldier kicking in a door (like my nephew), there are hundreds if not thousands of military (including females) that provide the support and supply chains (and medical, etc.) stretching all the way around the world. These young people are also to be thanked for their service, what they do is essential and should not be dismissed.
Exactly -- an army needs to use its resources wisely to win wars, not to be the subject of social experimentation. All roles and all types of service are equally necessary and equally valued, but the smart army optimizes the resources according a general ability.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
I often hear the size of China's army mentioned.

Isn't bigger better?
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Rainman
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Quote:
 
D'Oh:
My apologies. However, it has to be said your father doesn't sound like the typical SS soldier. I also suspect that the conscripts and the volunteers were somewhat different in their world view.


Apology accepted. I realize you were just making a general point.

However, I think my Dad would disagree with you (he passed away in 1999). The SS were elite, they were often highly educated (Dad had a Masters in Latin/Romance Languages).

That being said, even highly educated men can be thugs.
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Rainman
Jan 17 2011, 01:53 PM
Quote:
 
D'Oh:
My apologies. However, it has to be said your father doesn't sound like the typical SS soldier. I also suspect that the conscripts and the volunteers were somewhat different in their world view.


Apology accepted. I realize you were just making a general point.

However, I think my Dad would disagree with you (he passed away in 1999). The SS were elite, they were often highly educated (Dad had a Masters in Latin/Romance Languages).

That being said, even highly educated men can be thugs.
Stop slamming TNCR. :tsktsk:
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
Kenny: Bigger can be better, but not always - see my example above.
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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Rainman
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Fulla-Carp
As an aside: when my draft number for VietNam was announced (I was number 44), I remember my Dad going ballistic at the TV set during the evening news, yelling at Walter or the Huntley/Brinkley reports.

His rants were basically, "the U.S. knows how to start a war, why the hell can't they learn how to win."

He hated Hitler, referring to him as a "go*dam house painter" - but Dad would maintain that if the U.S. had a clear objective, and poured everything into winning, wars would be ugly and brutal, but over quickly. He told me at the time he would support me moving to Canada, instead of being slaughtered in a jungle with no military reason to be there in the first place. And that was from a man who had the most intense hatred of communism (Nixon ended the draft, I was lucky).
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
And that is the problem we have had for decades now - if we're going to go in, leave the lawyers, the reporters, the women, and the sissy officers that have barely held a gun in their hands behind, go in and kick ass and take names, kill the enemy and destroy their property, and then come home.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Rainman
Jan 17 2011, 01:53 PM
That being said, even highly educated men can be thugs.
My use of the word 'moron' was inaccurate, even when applied to the volunteers, who were fanatical rather than stupid. However, at the point at which an intelligent fanatic continues to fight on, despite there being no hope of success, he becomes indistinguishable from a moron - this was really the point I was trying to make, before I started insulting everybody's family members.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Rainman
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Fulla-Carp
Quote:
 
D'Oh:
However, at the point at which an intelligent fanatic continues to fight on, despite there being no hope of success, he becomes indistinguishable from a moron - this was really the point I was trying to make, before I started insulting everybody's family members.


I see your point. The word "moron" is simply not the best word to get it across. My sense of the word equates to "stupid" - best used to describe politicians.

My father-in-law fought in North Africa, then in Italy (Casino, Cassio, eventually was in the Battle of the Bulge where he spent nearly 48 hours in a foxhole where all others around him were dead - he had nightmares the rest of his life).

He told me that fighting the Wehrmacht was one thing, these were just conscripts and not fanatics. If they were fighting SS led troops, it was a whole different nightmare - these guys would fight to the death, with no mercy.

Needless to say, when my wife and I became engaged, it was rather interesting (tense) when my father-in-law first met my Dad.
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kenny
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Ah yes, the ultimate intellectual dilemma, what the call your underlings . . .

Didn't Carlin say something like, "Did you ever notice anyone driving faster than you is an idiot, but anyone driving slower than you is a moron?"
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
kenny
Jan 17 2011, 02:39 PM
Ah yes, the ultimate intellectual dilemma, what the call your underlings . . .
boxers, briefs, boxer briefs, y-fronts, depends...
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Copper
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Shortstop
There is no need to go to war to see how this works.

Just look at sports.

Women would be permitted to participate in most professional male sports.

In fact if a woman could play baseball, football or basketball like Michelle Wei in golf it would be a bonanza.

There would be huge financial incentive for team owners and the woman involved.

If a woman could make it in the NBA the publicity and money would be huge.

It just doesn't happen.

Make whatever excuses - it just doesn't.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
*
Edited by JBryan, Jan 17 2011, 02:54 PM.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
John D'Oh
Jan 17 2011, 01:35 PM
The ancient Briton women used to fight, and I don't believe they were complete sissies. I suspect in a fist fight they'd have been able to take out most of the people here. They nearly beat the Romans, who cheated by using sophisticated weaponry and also Latin charm. The Britons were so busy laughing at their ludicrous medallions and leather skirts that they were taken advantage of.
Two points:

1. Why am I not at all surprised that Brits sent their women to fight?

2. It ain't the Italian men that still wear skirts.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Rainman
Jan 17 2011, 02:06 PM
As an aside: when my draft number for VietNam was announced (I was number 44), I remember my Dad going ballistic at the TV set during the evening news, yelling at Walter or the Huntley/Brinkley reports.

His rants were basically, "the U.S. knows how to start a war, why the hell can't they learn how to win."

He hated Hitler, referring to him as a "go*dam house painter" - but Dad would maintain that if the U.S. had a clear objective, and poured everything into winning, wars would be ugly and brutal, but over quickly. He told me at the time he would support me moving to Canada, instead of being slaughtered in a jungle with no military reason to be there in the first place. And that was from a man who had the most intense hatred of communism (Nixon ended the draft, I was lucky).
I got in right on the end of the draft lottery too, RM. But my number was pretty high - 200 plus I think - if i remember correctly.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
Copper: Though, CU did have a female kicker a few seasons back, and the high school she came from still has a female kicker. :)
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
KlavierBauer
Jan 17 2011, 02:58 PM
Copper: Though, CU did have a female kicker a few seasons back, and the high school she came from still has a female kicker. :)
there are boys and girls soccer teams too, if that helps the argument... (which it doesn't)... :whome:
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
It doesn't help the argument, because it's flawed at the foundation.
One need only compare the WNBA, and MTV's Lingerie Football League to see which business models for women's professional sports work.

Sadly, this has nothing to do with equality, and everything to do with the opposite.
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Vive le difference.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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