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I'm starting to rethink this whole Hybrid/Electric car thing
Topic Started: Jan 13 2011, 06:51 AM (829 Views)
Improviso
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HOLY CARP!!!
While driving back from the bay yesterday, the electric motor IMA (Integrated Motor Assist) light and check engine light came on. Car still drove fine, but an IMA light on is not a good sign. The car has 69K miles on it.

So I swung by the dealership to have them check out the the warning code. "Battery Module Deterioration." Translated, that means the hybrid battery was failing. I've been reading the forum that Kenny used to talk about and I'm finding many people talking about this same problem.

The Honda hybrid has a standard warranty on the assist motor and battery of 80K miles/8 years (150K/10 years in CA and other states). In addition, because it was such new technology when I bought it in '04, I purchased an extended warranty covering me up to 100K miles on everything.

Glad I did...

The dealership has ordered a new Hybrid battery and will call me next week to schedule an appointment to have it replaced. The good news is that because I'm under the 80K miles, it's covered 100% under warranty.

The bad news is that if it wasn't covered, the replacement/repair bill would have been $3000-$4000. :eek: And many people in the Hybrid forum had their battery fail AFTER warranty.

Apparently, even with all the new hybrid models coming out from many different manufacturers, the cost of these battery's is still very high. The Civic will still run in this condition, albeit with lower fuel economy, but the Toyota Prius will not if its battery dies. And these new all electric cars that are coming out now? I wonder what that will cost down the road to replace?

Let's just say that this episode has worn the shine off of an otherwise pleasant experience owning a hybrid. You save all this money on the front end in fuel cost savings, only to be bitten in the a$$ down the road with a huge battery replacement bill.

Ya just can't win...
Identifying narcissists isn't difficult. Just look for the person who is constantly fishing for compliments
and admiration while breaking down over even the slightest bit of criticism.

We have the freedom to choose our actions, but we do not get to choose our consequences.
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
Yeah, there's still no economic case for a hybrid. That will change though, probably not too long from now.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
But you killed fewer Iraqi babies.
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RosemaryTwo
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HOLY CARP!!!
Intersting.

Cars are money pits any way you slice it. Some more than others, I guess.
"Perhaps the thing to do is just to let stupid run its course." Aqua
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brenda
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..............
RosemaryTwo
Jan 13 2011, 07:21 AM
Intersting.

Cars are money pits any way you slice it. Some more than others, I guess.
Bingo on the money pit, R2.

This comes from the woman who is still happily driving her 1991 Chevy pickup truck. I hate putting money into a vehicle. My long tall Sally still drives like a dream and runs great. I shall keep her until she croaks or I do.
“Weeds are flowers, too, once you get to know them.”
~A.A. Milne
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RosemaryTwo
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HOLY CARP!!!
Plus you need cookie haulin' capability.
"Perhaps the thing to do is just to let stupid run its course." Aqua
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Red Rice
HOLY CARP!!!
kenny
Jan 13 2011, 07:18 AM
But you killed fewer Iraqi babies.
Yeah, that's another drawback.
Civilisation, I vaguely realized then - and subsequent observation has confirmed the view - could not progress that way. It must have a greater guiding principle to survive. To treat it as a carcase off which each man tears as much as he can for himself, is to stand convicted a brute, fit for nothing better than a jungle existence, which is a death-struggle, leading nowhither. I did not believe that was the human destiny, for Man individually was sane and reasonable, only collectively a fool.

I hope the gunner of that Hun two-seater shot him clean, bullet to heart, and that his plane, on fire, fell like a meteor through the sky he loved. Since he had to end, I hope he ended so. But, oh, the waste! The loss!

- Cecil Lewis
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The 89th Key
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kenny
Jan 13 2011, 07:18 AM
But you killed fewer Iraqi babies.
Economic, not humanitarian. :)

I'll get a hybrid in the future, no doubt.....just need it to make ˘ents.
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big al
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Bull-Carp
Battery life was one big question I wondered about when I purchased my last car in late 2005. I considered a Honda hybrid because I had driven one in our company car pool and liked it pretty well. I did not like the Prius in the car pool so I didn't consider it.

The larger part of my driving is on open roads, so the fuel economy equation doesn't tilt as heavily toward a hybrid as it does for city driving. I do drive a lot, though (the car that I ultimately bought, a Ford Focus, is just now nearing 150K miles), and I wondered about the longevity and replacement costs for a hybrid's battery. In the end, the local Honda dealers had none in stock and couldn't tell me when one would be available, so I had no decision to make.

I'll look at the hybrid/electric options again when I wear this car out. By that time, I may be retired or close to it and the miles travelled part of the equation will change.

I have heard that hybrid batteries are sometimes available via the salvage route for much less than the cost from the manufacturer. Remaining life might be suspect, though.

Big Al
Location: Western PA

"jesu, der simcha fun der man's farlangen."
-bachophile
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Mark
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HOLY CARP!!!
I'm waiting for Mr. Fusion.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
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Copper
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Shortstop
brenda
Jan 13 2011, 07:47 AM

This comes from the woman who is still happily driving her 1991 Chevy pickup truck.

My Chevy is a 2001, 10 years old now. I sold my previous Chevy after 14 years. No trouble with either.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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brenda
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..............
Copper
Jan 13 2011, 07:59 AM
brenda
Jan 13 2011, 07:47 AM

This comes from the woman who is still happily driving her 1991 Chevy pickup truck.

My Chevy is a 2001, 10 years old now. I sold my previous Chevy after 14 years. No trouble with either.
:thumb: My truck still looks good, too. Sometimes I'll notice someone staring at it, then they'll say something like, "For an old truck, that is in really good shape!" :)

Or they'll ask me how old it is. When they find out it's a 1991, they pause as they realize it's 20 years old, and then they give the line above. :lol2:
“Weeds are flowers, too, once you get to know them.”
~A.A. Milne
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
My Chevy truck is a 1988, sat in the barn for about ten years, did a frame off restoration on it a few years ago, named it the Pie Wagon, every guy who sees it wants to buy it, and when I put it in 4 wheel drive it will climb trees......and in 2 wheel drive on the interstate in overdrive and the cruise control on, gets 17 MPG with a V8.... it is giving every indication that it plans on outliving me....
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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brenda
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..............
Larry
Jan 13 2011, 08:41 AM
My Chevy truck is a 1988, sat in the barn for about ten years, did a frame off restoration on it a few years ago, named it the Pie Wagon, every guy who sees it wants to buy it, and when I put it in 4 wheel drive it will climb trees......and in 2 wheel drive on the interstate in overdrive and the cruise control on, gets 17 MPG with a V8.... it is giving every indication that it plans on outliving me....
:thumb:

Let me guess, Larry. You love your truck, too?
Thought so. :lol2:
“Weeds are flowers, too, once you get to know them.”
~A.A. Milne
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Yeppers...

So much that the Town Car that will cruise down the interstate like a rolling living room getting 28 mpg is gathering dust.....
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
The Journey to Forever (some serious sustainable living folks) thought older diesel Mercedes were just about the most earth friendly of all cars...not that they were so easy on fuel, but that one could be rebuilt and last for many, many years.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
jolly: That, and they'll run on pretty much any natural oil...
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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musicasacra
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HOLY CARP!!!
Our hybrid is an '07. 10 year warranty on the hybrid battery is standard. So I'll sell it before then. ^_^
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
musicasacra
Jan 14 2011, 04:29 AM
Our hybrid is an '07. 10 year warranty on the hybrid battery is standard. So I'll sell it before then. ^_^
It still affects us by lowering the resale value of our hybrid cars when nearing the end of the warranty. :weeping:

Also I thought the battery warranties were pro-rated, as in if you are in year 9 of a 10-year warranty they only pay for 10% of a new battery since "9 years of its life is consumed".
No?

Maybe Improv's extended warranty isn't written like that but i believe those standard 8 or 10 year ones on the hybrid stuff are.

Oh, why did you guys talk me into buying a hybrid. :mad2:
LOL
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Improviso
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HOLY CARP!!!
kenny
Jan 14 2011, 07:07 AM
No?
No...

The standard warranty on the hybrid battery isn't prorated, thank god. If it fails anytime during the warranty, they replace it free of charge to the owner. But they will only replace it free if the computer throws a battery code, which mine did.

My replacement is being done under the standard warranty, not the extended one I purchased.
Identifying narcissists isn't difficult. Just look for the person who is constantly fishing for compliments
and admiration while breaking down over even the slightest bit of criticism.

We have the freedom to choose our actions, but we do not get to choose our consequences.
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Improviso
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HOLY CARP!!!
Now... the down side to the replacement is, the new battery is only warranted for 36k miles/3 years.

That may be the time to unload it.
Identifying narcissists isn't difficult. Just look for the person who is constantly fishing for compliments
and admiration while breaking down over even the slightest bit of criticism.

We have the freedom to choose our actions, but we do not get to choose our consequences.
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Improviso
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HOLY CARP!!!
musicasacra
Jan 14 2011, 04:29 AM
Our hybrid is an '07. 10 year warranty on the hybrid battery is standard. So I'll sell it before then. ^_^
I didn't realize (or remember) that y'all bought a hybrid. I thought Kenny and I were the only ones.

Let me go into a little more detail of the problem because you and Kenny may be interested in this...

My hybrid had been sitting in our bay house garage for about 2 weeks. When I went down and started it a last week, the *check battery* light, *check engine* light and the IMA light came on. I looked in the manual for clues. The *check battery* light indicated a problem with the 12v battery under the hood. So I opened the hood to look at the 12v battery. It says that it's a maintenance free battery and this is the second one in the car since I bought it. But it wasn't maintenance free. I popped the little covers over the battery fill holes and every one of the cells was low, exposing the tops of the internal battery cells in the 12v battery. So I added distilled water back to normal level and drove the car to recharge the hybrid battery and 12v battery. None of the lights went out. So I said screw it and bought and installed a brand new 12v battery. This fixed the *check battery* light. It went out. But the other two remained on. This is why I brought it to the dealer to check out. Nothing I could do to fix that.

My point in all of this is, check the fluid level in your 12v battery, if you can. This little battery gets a hell of a workout and most people seem to think it's a little undersized for the car, which doesn't translate well for longevity.

Unlike normal cars with an alternator to charge the 12v battery, in Honda Hybrids, they use a dc to dc converter in the hybrid battery pack to charge the 12v battery, My theory is with a 12v battery that is going bad and won't hold a charge like normal, the hybrid battery is working overtime to try and keep the 12v battery charged. This puts a strain on the hybrid battery and possibly leads to failure. I don't know this to be true, but it seems like a weird coincidence that all this happened at the same time.

I been driving the car for several days now since visiting the dealership and the IMA/check engine light are off and have not come back on and the car is driving and acting normal, without replacing the hybrid battery yet. Since replacing the 12v battery, the *check battery* light has stayed off.

Who knows... :shrug:
Identifying narcissists isn't difficult. Just look for the person who is constantly fishing for compliments
and admiration while breaking down over even the slightest bit of criticism.

We have the freedom to choose our actions, but we do not get to choose our consequences.
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Thanks Improv.
I'll keep an eye on our battery fluid levels.
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Improviso
Jan 14 2011, 08:04 AM
musicasacra
Jan 14 2011, 04:29 AM
Our hybrid is an '07. 10 year warranty on the hybrid battery is standard. So I'll sell it before then. ^_^
I didn't realize (or remember) that y'all bought a hybrid. I thought Kenny and I were the only ones.
:wave:

Thanks for the info about the 12V battery ... I rarely open the hood, I just bring the car back to an authorized dealer for servicing when the Maintenance Minder thing tells me to and hope for best.

Incidentally, I think there has been two "recalls" related to software update that affects the IMA battery that I have received from the manufacturer. I got the first "recall" work done last year when doing a routine maintenance, now waiting for the next routine maintenance (per the Maintenance Minder) to get the second "recall" work done.
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Improv you said your 12-v batter was low.
Ax and I piss away money bringing our cars into a Honda dealer when order to do so.

Do you do that?
Perhaps Honda dealers have that on their list of things they charge suckers like Ax and I a trillion dollars for.
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