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Ummm.. about that "rhetoric of violence"...
Topic Started: Jan 12 2011, 10:45 AM (699 Views)
ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Democrat Kanjorski calls for the execution of Republican candidate

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This was followed by a reference to Rick Scott, the Republican candidate for Florida governor, who was ousted in 1997 as head of the giant health care company Columbia/HCA, amid the nation's largest Medicare and Medicaid fraud scandal. The company paid $1.7 billion in fines and civil settlements.

"That Scott down there that's running for governor of Florida," Mr. Kanjorski said. "Instead of running for governor of Florida, they ought to have him and shoot him. Put him against the wall and shoot him. He stole billions of dollars from the United States government and he's running for governor of Florida. He's a millionaire and a billionaire. He's no hero. He's a damn crook. It's just we don't prosecute big crooks."


Not even a semblance of Due Process.

The dogma lives loudly within me.
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jon-nyc
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You guys (collectively) need to decide if 'rhetoric of violence' is no big deal, or something really bad that Democrats do a lot of. You seem to be of two minds about it.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
I am sure someone will get around to shooting him once they get their marching orders from Rush Limbaugh.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
jon-nyc
Jan 12 2011, 11:00 AM
You guys (collectively) need to decide if 'rhetoric of violence' is no big deal, or something really bad that Democrats do a lot of. You seem to be of two minds about it.
I think the same is equally true of many on the left, but in reverse.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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jon-nyc
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John D'Oh
Jan 12 2011, 11:07 AM
I think the same is equally true of many on the left, but in reverse.
Reminds me of the old Russian proverb - 'Under Capitalism man exploits man. With Communism, its just the opposite'
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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KlavierBauer
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I think a rhetoric of violence is wrong - I'm not sure I understand *what* that is though.
A "campaign" poster with "targets" or "cross hairs" doesn't do it for me, as it follows the same war-room symbolism that follows every "campaign."
I'm not trying to be stuck on that one example - I'm just saying that I'm not sure I know what this rhetoric of violence is...
However, saying that they should "put (someone) against the wall and shoot him" is much less ambiguous.
I don't think for a second Mr. Kanjorski was actually calling extremists to action with that statement, but if one were making a case for violent speech in politics, this seems to fit the bill more clearly than the Palin poster over which so much ado has been made.
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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ivorythumper
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jon-nyc
Jan 12 2011, 11:00 AM
You guys (collectively) need to decide if 'rhetoric of violence' is no big deal, or something really bad that Democrats do a lot of. You seem to be of two minds about it.
Jon: The point (which you seem to reflexively miss) is the hypocrisy of the Left. I don't see any of what Palin or Beck or Limbaugh said as "rhetoric of violence".

E.g., "Second amendment remedies" for instance are precisely that -- that the well armed militia is there to to protect the people of the State against any aggression, both foreign and Federal. That was all laid out in the Federalist Papers. But the hyperventilating Left uses that for cheap political theater, while putting their opponents in sniper cross hairs and calling for their summary execution.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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jon-nyc
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So its both, depending on the speaker! Thanks for clearing that up.

In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Mikhailoh
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Yes, it is a bad thing generally. But should it be illegal? No.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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ivorythumper
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jon-nyc
Jan 12 2011, 11:36 AM
So its both, depending on the speaker! Thanks for clearing that up.

Wrong again.

But you already knew that.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Kincaid
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HOLY CARP!!!
ivorythumper
Jan 12 2011, 11:32 AM
jon-nyc
Jan 12 2011, 11:00 AM
You guys (collectively) need to decide if 'rhetoric of violence' is no big deal, or something really bad that Democrats do a lot of. You seem to be of two minds about it.
Jon: The point (which you seem to reflexively miss) is the hypocrisy of the Left.
Someone with experience in debate please let me know if Jon's sidestep of the obvious hypocrisy reference (I suppose this is kind of where "reframing the debate" comes from) is a standard debating tool that is taught. I see it all the time on both sides and it drives me nuts.
Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Kincaid got it in one.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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jon-nyc
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Kincaid
Jan 12 2011, 11:47 AM
ivorythumper
Jan 12 2011, 11:32 AM
jon-nyc
Jan 12 2011, 11:00 AM
You guys (collectively) need to decide if 'rhetoric of violence' is no big deal, or something really bad that Democrats do a lot of. You seem to be of two minds about it.
Jon: The point (which you seem to reflexively miss) is the hypocrisy of the Left.
Someone with experience in debate please let me know if Jon's sidestep of the obvious hypocrisy reference (I suppose this is kind of where "reframing the debate" comes from) is a standard debating tool that is taught. I see it all the time on both sides and it drives me nuts.
Thats ridiculous. It would be different if I had gone on record saying that 'rhetoric of violence' is the exclusive domain of the right, but that is certainly false.


And while I'm sure there are people that may have said such a thing, how did I become honor-bound to address it just because you or IT might decide to categorize me with them in some way? (else risk being accused of 'side-stepping' some rhetorical responsibility)





In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
As a matter of principle in the context of contemporary American politics, would you (any one of you) say that "rhetoric of violence" is good or bad? :blink:
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
It depends.
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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Copper
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Axtremus
Jan 12 2011, 12:07 PM
one of you) say that "rhetoric of violence" is good or bad? :blink:

It is neither.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
jon-nyc
Jan 12 2011, 12:07 PM
Kincaid
Jan 12 2011, 11:47 AM
ivorythumper
Jan 12 2011, 11:32 AM
jon-nyc
Jan 12 2011, 11:00 AM
You guys (collectively) need to decide if 'rhetoric of violence' is no big deal, or something really bad that Democrats do a lot of. You seem to be of two minds about it.
Jon: The point (which you seem to reflexively miss) is the hypocrisy of the Left.
Someone with experience in debate please let me know if Jon's sidestep of the obvious hypocrisy reference (I suppose this is kind of where "reframing the debate" comes from) is a standard debating tool that is taught. I see it all the time on both sides and it drives me nuts.
Thats ridiculous. It would be different if I had gone on record saying that 'rhetoric of violence' is the exclusive domain of the right, but that is certainly false.

And while I'm sure there are people that may have said such a thing, how did I become honor-bound to address it just because you or IT might decide to categorize me with them in some way? (else risk being accused of 'side-stepping' some rhetorical responsibility)
Jon: You didn't need to try to carry the standard -- you chose to do it. I did not call you out by name. You asked a question which missed the point, and I told you you missed the point. So I didn't answer your question because it had nothing to do with the point. And then you presumed my answer to your question, which is exactly what Kincaid called you out on.

But again, you already know that.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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jon-nyc
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I made a droll comment. That you consider it to be 'carrying the standard' is just as arbitrary and irrelevant as the fact that you consider both myself and one or another hypocritical commenter to be 'of the left'.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Just a technicality, IT: Jon didn't ask a question, so your answer missed the point. But you already know that. And you already know that I know that you know it. And most importantly, you already know that I know that you know that I know it.
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
Ax
 
As a matter of principle in the context of contemporary American politics, would you (any one of you) say that "rhetoric of violence" is good or bad?


I answered this above.
The devil is in the details. We don't need to promote any violence, but before we cross the bridge of that discussion, we need to define what a "rhetoric of violence" is, and what is included within it.
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
jon-nyc
Jan 12 2011, 12:19 PM
I made a droll comment. That you consider it to be 'carrying the standard' is just as arbitrary and irrelevant as the fact that you consider both myself and one or another hypocritical commenter to be 'of the left'.
You are claiming "how did I become honor-bound to address it just because you or IT might decide to categorize me with them in some way?'

My point was that if anything you took up the standard yourself. I did not categorize you in any way. I just pointed out the hypocrisy of the Left generally speaking.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Klaus
Jan 12 2011, 12:23 PM
Just a technicality, IT: Jon didn't ask a question, so your answer missed the point. But you already know that. And you already know that I know that you know it. And most importantly, you already know that I know that you know that I know it.
What he said had an implied question about making a decision. But you already knew that. ;)
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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jon-nyc
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ivorythumper
Jan 12 2011, 12:41 PM
My point was that if anything you took up the standard yourself. I did not categorize you in any way.
Sure you did, by deciding that my comment was 'standard bearing'.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
jon-nyc
Jan 12 2011, 12:52 PM
ivorythumper
Jan 12 2011, 12:41 PM
My point was that if anything you took up the standard yourself. I did not categorize you in any way.
Sure you did, by deciding that my comment was 'standard bearing'.
Jon: that was in reference to your wondering "how did I become honor-bound to address it just because you or IT might decide to categorize me with them in some way? "

You were not honor bound. The metaphor of a standard bearer is in respect of your putting it in the language of "honor bound". Try to follow the actual conversation as it was chronologically recorded. That will help you.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Nobody's Sock
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Fulla-Carp
Cons calling the left hypocritcal?



Oh, the hypocrisy! :puke:
"Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known."
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