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Need to Get it Out!!!!!
Topic Started: Jan 7 2011, 08:28 PM (2,459 Views)
RosemaryTwo
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HOLY CARP!!!
And don't let one bad decision get in the way of making good future decisions. Progress may not be a straight line here.
"Perhaps the thing to do is just to let stupid run its course." Aqua
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Improviso
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HOLY CARP!!!
Agreed Larry. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. It's all kumbaya till the lawyers get involved. Then it turns nasty, quick.
Identifying narcissists isn't difficult. Just look for the person who is constantly fishing for compliments
and admiration while breaking down over even the slightest bit of criticism.

We have the freedom to choose our actions, but we do not get to choose our consequences.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Larry
Jan 7 2011, 09:08 PM
Jgoo, you know that I tend to be blunt. It's just my way - I cut to the heart of things and lay it out straight.

The two of you need to get into counseling as fast as you can go. There is something wrong with a mother of a 15 month old who would leave her baby to go spend the night munching on some other woman's hoo hoo. Withholding affection from *you* is one thing - absent the other that is just an issue with the relationship between the two of you. But what I'm seeing is a girl who is emotionally unstable, extremely self centered, and frankly not mature enough to be a wife OR a mother.

Get it on record that she's leaving her baby with you to spend the night away from home having sex with another woman, get it on record that you tried counseling, STAY AWAY FROM OTHER GIRLS - and then go hire the best, meanest lawyer you can afford, and rip her a new asshole. Take the kid, full custody, and then kick her to the curb and don't look back. It's not going to change.

Absolutely.

And while jgoo may not be that kind of person, I don't trust his spouse not to be exactly that kind of person.

Legal battles (nad this is what this will probably turn out to be) are like gunfights...There ain't no second place winner.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Long ago I was in a 13-year relationship that went south.
It took me two years to end it.

Being kind and sensitive and not wanting to hurt his feelings was a HUGE mistake and I learned a lesson...WHEN IT'S OVER, IT'S OVER - JUST GET OUT, FAST!

The difference here is there is a child.
What's best for the baby is if mommy and daddy patched things up, via therapy or religion or whatever works for them.

I think having a kid is a more serious commitment and obligation than marriage vows.
To me it's always all about the kids; maybe I listed to Dr. Laura too much.
It's almost like, screw whatever you two want, you started a job you have to finish.

Instead of thinking of it as staying together for the kids, how bout falling back in love with each other and finding happiness in each other - for the kids.
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ilm
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Middle Aged Carp
jgoo,
I totally agree with all the advice everyone here on TNCR are giving you. Yes, this is a difficult time for you, but PLEASE don't get involved with another woman. My fear is you might bring into this world another child from another relationship, and you have to think of Riley first, who needs security!

ILM
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Improviso
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HOLY CARP!!!
jgoo
Jan 7 2011, 10:18 PM
BTW, I have brought up counseling before a few different times. For the most part, K either didn't like the idea of it, said we were beyond it, or the time she finally did decide to go along with it said it was too expensive when we looked into it. She thinks counseling will help me but is hesitant to admit that it would also help her.
This would be a deal breaker for me. Won't agree to counseling? I'm done.

This says to me, you are not worth the time or trouble. Too expensive is bull$hit. She's figured out she can play both ends of the field and you're not going to do a thing about it.

So unless you're willing to stand up and give her an ultimatum, you can expect to be walked on the rest of your married life. Because she's figured out exactly what you WILL put up with.

And that ultimatum is: You or the women. She can't have both.
Identifying narcissists isn't difficult. Just look for the person who is constantly fishing for compliments
and admiration while breaking down over even the slightest bit of criticism.

We have the freedom to choose our actions, but we do not get to choose our consequences.
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Improviso
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
And while you may already know this and people here may disagree with me. Unless you can prove that K is a crack whore who abuses her kid (which I don't think you can), you will not get custody of the child. You'll have to deal with visitation twice a month. The custody laws in this country still favor the mother. It's never been a level playing field for fathers. So don't make the assumption that it is.
Identifying narcissists isn't difficult. Just look for the person who is constantly fishing for compliments
and admiration while breaking down over even the slightest bit of criticism.

We have the freedom to choose our actions, but we do not get to choose our consequences.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
apple
Jan 8 2011, 06:06 AM
dat true.. there is a lot at stake and whoever pays for a lawyer will benefit the most. still, it would save a lot of money if the two adults could come to some pre-agreement with equal priorities.
That would imply she is an adult. She is not.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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dolmansaxlil
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HOLY CARP!!!
I have to agree - unless you want the relationship to be like this forever, you have to give her an ultimatum. This isn't what you agreed to when you married her, and she's not going to suddenly change her ways. You or her. Period.

I also agree with Improv. If she decides that she wants full custody of Riley and you just have visitation, that's what she'll get. Period. The only way you're going to get anything else, like a 50/50 deal, is if she and you agree on it outside the courts.
"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst." ~ Henri Cartier-Bresson

My Flickr Photostream


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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Improviso
Jan 7 2011, 08:53 PM
This is what you wrote...

Quote:
 
She kept saying (at first) that she didn't want a relationship with this other girl, just a friends with benefits type of thing, and although she still doesn't classify herself as in a relationship with her, for quite a while now she has been doing all the relationship things with her.

Now read it this way...

She kept saying (at first) that she didn't want a relationship with this other guy, just a friends with benefits type of thing, and although she still doesn't classify herself as in a relationship with him, for quite a while now she has been doing all the relationship things with him.

Does that make you feel different than the way you feel about what you wrote?

If it does, it shouldn't. It's the same thing. Gender shouldn't matter.
Maybe.
Maybe not.

We can be all PC and talk about equality but I wonder if when reproduction is involved things are different, deep down at a gut evolutionary level.

That may explain why Jgoo said it would be different if it was another man.

It brings to mind that saying, "Humans are DNA's way of making more DNA."
We think we call the shots, but maybe we are just 80-year tools of something larger that goes on forever.

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Free Rider
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Fulla-Carp
Jgoo this sounds awful to me. I don't know what the courts will do with your situation, but I suspect that K witll probably have the better chance of getting custody of Riley.

What do you want? Do you want to be a single parent taking care of Riley? Do you want a 50/50 type of thing where you get Riley one week, then K the next?

Do you want to repair the relationship with K? Or if that's not an option do you want to break ties with her and remain friends? Do you trust her with Riley?

*sigh*

good luck with this difficult situation. :hug:
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Improviso
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HOLY CARP!!!
kenny
Jan 8 2011, 09:34 AM
We can be all PC and talk about equality but I wonder if when reproduction is involved things are different, deep down at a gut evolutionary level.

That may explain why Jgoo said it would be different if it was another man.
Me? Be PC? Surely, you jest.

My point was that for a straight guy, another man is competition. But for some reason, if it's a woman, some of us don't seem to see it the same way.

Maybe deep down, we're hoping it will turn into a threesome. :whome:

Identifying narcissists isn't difficult. Just look for the person who is constantly fishing for compliments
and admiration while breaking down over even the slightest bit of criticism.

We have the freedom to choose our actions, but we do not get to choose our consequences.
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Improviso
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Larry
Jan 7 2011, 09:08 PM
...spend the night munching on some other woman's hoo hoo.
Oh yeah... I meant to comment on this last night.

You sure can turn a phrase there, Larry. :D
Identifying narcissists isn't difficult. Just look for the person who is constantly fishing for compliments
and admiration while breaking down over even the slightest bit of criticism.

We have the freedom to choose our actions, but we do not get to choose our consequences.
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apple
one of the angels
sorry to get ugly, but if you need to prove that she may be unfit to have sole custody, you'll need evidence,.... a log of her relationship, emails, phone records.. maybe. I witnessed my brother experience a rather ugly divorce.
it behooves me to behold
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Improviso
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HOLY CARP!!!
While you're absolutely right apple, it usually ends up being a dead end rabbit hole.
Identifying narcissists isn't difficult. Just look for the person who is constantly fishing for compliments
and admiration while breaking down over even the slightest bit of criticism.

We have the freedom to choose our actions, but we do not get to choose our consequences.
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
Kenny - very true words.
It's a delicate line to do what is right for oneself, and make sure that the child (and what is best for it) are still priority.
I actually frequently agree with Dr. Laura in these situations - that Mom and Dad have given up the "right" to what they want once they have children.

I'm not saying that K and Jgoo have to give up their own happiness for the next 18 years, but the child's best interest outweighs the interests of the parents - up to the point where a parent's ability to parent is compromised by the overall situation.

Jgoo: You're no longer married, and you haven't been for awhile it sounds like. The moment that your wife sought gratification (emotional or physical) outside of your partnership, you were no longer married. Essentially, you're already divorced in the context of your commitment to each other. If either of you put the other first, no matter what, then neither of you will be talking about seeking physical gratification outside of your marriage.
I don't advocate ripping things apart with the legal piece - but I do agree with Larry and others that you need to protect yourself. You don't necessarily need the meanest lawyer, but you definitely need one, and you need to be able to demonstrate that you're not the one breaking this. Attempts at counseling, being faithful, and continuing to put your child first (and demonstrations where she's failing on these fronts) will help make the case that she is not living up what is expected of her as a parent, and as a spouse.

Again, I probably have too much to say here, and the rules I live my life by aren't necessarily yours, so don't think that I'm telling you what you have to do.
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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Optimistic
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HOLY CARP!!!
Lots of good advice here. I have none to add, only well wishes for the best, and a hug. :hug:
PHOTOS

I must have a prodigious quantity of mind; it takes me as much as a week, sometimes, to make it up.
- Mark Twain


We shall not cease from exploration
And the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time.
-T. S. Eliot
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LadyElton
Fulla-Carp
Ok, I'm a liberal and yet, I agree with Larry. Only thing is that it doesn't matter who K is stepping out with. It's still cheating, regardless and she's manipulating you. You and Riley deserve better.
Hilary aka LadyElton
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
Improv: I agree that custody can be tricky - even when justified - for the man to obtain.
However, it isn't impossible, and in situations such as this one, it can work out.
As I said, I had a friend go through this same sort of thing, and another friend who went through something similar sprang into mind this morning. While the custody got ugly in the one situation, in the other it went very easily, because "mom" was more interested in going out and fulfilling her "needs" than being a parent anyway, and in the end didn't *want* custody.

"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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Improviso
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HOLY CARP!!!
Improviso
Jan 8 2011, 09:42 AM
kenny
Jan 8 2011, 09:34 AM
We can be all PC and talk about equality but I wonder if when reproduction is involved things are different, deep down at a gut evolutionary level.

That may explain why Jgoo said it would be different if it was another man.
Me? Be PC? Surely, you jest.

My point was that for a straight guy, another man is competition. But for some reason, if it's a woman, some of us don't seem to see it the same way.
Hmm.. now that I've thought about it, maybe that's also true for a gay guy. :D
Identifying narcissists isn't difficult. Just look for the person who is constantly fishing for compliments
and admiration while breaking down over even the slightest bit of criticism.

We have the freedom to choose our actions, but we do not get to choose our consequences.
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Improviso
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Quote:
 
Improv: I agree that custody can be tricky - even when justified - for the man to obtain.
However, it isn't impossible, and in situations such as this one, it can work out.

Ever the optimist, eh KB?

Quote:
 
While the custody got ugly in the one situation, in the other it went very easily, because "mom" was more interested in going out and fulfilling her "needs" than being a parent anyway, and in the end didn't *want* custody.

While that's true... don't count on it. A "mom" is just as likely to see the child as a *meal ticket* and custody as a method of revenge.

Identifying narcissists isn't difficult. Just look for the person who is constantly fishing for compliments
and admiration while breaking down over even the slightest bit of criticism.

We have the freedom to choose our actions, but we do not get to choose our consequences.
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
I'm not disagreeing with you at all.
One has to be cautious, and sage, but overwhelming odds are not a reason to stay at home and not fight.

Thermopylae taught us that!

In other words, the eventual reality of the situation is not guaranteed, and whatever it will *likely* be should not dictate what actions and precautions can/should be taken now.
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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Improviso
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
And not knowing what you're up against can be a bitch.

Custer taught us that!
Identifying narcissists isn't difficult. Just look for the person who is constantly fishing for compliments
and admiration while breaking down over even the slightest bit of criticism.

We have the freedom to choose our actions, but we do not get to choose our consequences.
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
Like I said - I'm not disagreeing.
It almost sounded initially like "don't even try - you won't win," which I wasn't in agreement with.
You likely won't win - but that isn't a reason not to log what's going on, and be prepared to fight if you have to.

"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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dolmansaxlil
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HOLY CARP!!!
I would also argue that whoever has more funds to spend on legal will make a huge difference in the custody arrangement if things get ugly. Sad, but true.
"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst." ~ Henri Cartier-Bresson

My Flickr Photostream


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