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That "Thud" you heard? It was a body.
Topic Started: Dec 11 2010, 06:43 AM (484 Views)
George K
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Finally
Teen found near Boston likely fell from plane :hair:

A Massachusetts prosecutor said Friday it's likely that a North Carolina teen whose mutilated body was found in a Boston suburb fell from the sky after stowing away in an airplane's wheel well.

Norfolk District Attorney William Keating cited evidence including a handprint in the wheel well, clothes strewn along the plane's flight path and an autopsy report indicating the teen fell "from a significant height."

Keating said Friday that he'd informed federal transportation safety officials about the apparent airport security breach by 16-year-old Delvonte Tisdale.

"To withhold any information at this point I think would endanger public safety," said Keating, a Democrat who was elected in November to represent Massachusetts' 10th Congressional District.

Keating held a press conference Friday after police searched a wooded area in Milton near where Tisdale's body was found last month. Along a path a Boston-bound plane would have taken while approaching the city, they found dark sneakers with white stripes and a red shirt matching clothing Tisdale's family said he'd worn, Keating said.

Keating said an autopsy showed trauma to Tisdale's body "was consistent with a fall from a significant height."
Investigators also discovered a handprint in grease inside the wheel well on the left side of a Boeing 737 that took off from Charlotte Douglas International Airport in Charlotte, N.C., on Nov. 15, the night Tisdale's body was found, Keating said.

"We feel it's important to inform federal transportation safety officials that it appears more likely than not that Mr. Tisdale was able to breach airport security and hide in the wheel well of a commercial jet liner without being detected by airport security personnel," Keating said.

Keating called what happened to Tisdale "a terrible tragedy."

"But if that was someone with a different motive, if that was a terrorist, that could be a bomb planted on there undetected," Keating said.

Jon Allen, a spokesman for the Transportation Security Administration, said: "We will work with the airport, which is responsible for access control security, to conduct a thorough investigation based on the facts and information provided by law enforcement."
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"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

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VPG
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Pisa-Carp
It would be interesting to know if this kid was a would be home grown terrorest.
Love to know his background. If he was the kind of kid that would try crazy stuff at school. Could he have had some kind of device to bring down the plane and somehow lost it. Seems like only half the story.
I'M NOT YELLING.........I'M ITALIAN...........THAT'S HOW WE TALK!


"People say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look."
Ronald Reagan, Inaugural, 1971

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Piano*Dad
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Bull-Carp
Kids have been known to do this in the past. Usually, it's just Darwin Award material. Very sad.
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George K
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Finally
The first thing I thought of was how utterly terrifying that would have been. Is there room in the wheel well for someone to hide once the gear goes up? Is there something to hang onto when the gear is lowered again?

Tragic, indeed.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Boys will be boys....
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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brenda
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..............
Wow. What made him think this would be a good plan? Maybe that's the point, there was not enough thought.
“Weeds are flowers, too, once you get to know them.”
~A.A. Milne
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
brenda
Dec 11 2010, 08:41 AM
Wow. What made him think this would be a good plan? Maybe that's the point, there was not enough thought.
My guess?

A) It was a bet or a dare.
B) Alcohol of drugs were involved
C) He had a substandard IQ
D) All of the above
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
I think it is freezing in there too.

Usually when I read about this happening it's some Einstein attempting to take an "immigration shortcut" to a better country.
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George K
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Finally
kenny
Dec 11 2010, 08:53 AM
I think it is freezing in there too.
There was a kid in Russia who actually did survive the trip. It was -50 degrees (Celcius) in the wheel well of a 737. He ended up with amputations because of the frostbite.

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Boy_survives_flight_in_wheel_well_of_Boeing_737
Quote:
 
He flew a distance of 1,300 kilometres in a wheel well of a Boeing 737 and lived. The fifteen year old Andrey Scherbakov spent two hours in the wheel well of the airplane at extreme temperature of −50° centigrade. The rear wheels do not go all the way into the plane; the wheel merely retracts into an opening and remains exposed.
...
The boy was delivered to the hospital by the airport staff and is said to be in a critical condition. His arms and legs were so severely frozen and swollen that the rescuers were not able to remove his coat and shoes. There is a probability that his hands may have to be amputated. However, according to the medical staff at the hospital, it is nothing short of a miracle that the boy survived the ordeal. The Boeing 737 has a cruising speed of 900 kilometres per hour and was flying constantly at an altitude of 10,000 metres for two hours. As a result, the boy suffered severe frostbite in both of his hands. Doctors in Ural city would have to remove his fingertips, which contracted gangrene after they had frozen, but they were committed to do everything within their power to stop it from spreading.
...
Stowaways in wheel wells risk freezing to death after take-off or being crushed when the wheels retract. This year, a body was found in the wheel well of a jet in San Francisco after a flight from Shanghai and another body was found in Atlanta after a flight from Dakar, Senegal.


And from a link at that site:
Quote:
 
A body was found in the nose gear of a United Airlines 747 jet from Shanghai, China, which arrived in San Francisco at 7:42 a.m. (PST).

According to San Mateo County Coroner Robert Foucrault, the man appeared to be Chinese and in his 50s, and had sustained several injuries prior to his death. Foucrault says that the man could have died from lack of oxygen, hypothermia, or being crushed by the landing gear.

The man, currently indentfied, entered the plane's wheel well, and attempted to stowaway, making him the 65th similar stowaway attempt, and the 59th death resulting from the attempts, according to the Federal Aviation Administration.

Edited by George K, Dec 11 2010, 08:58 AM.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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VPG
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Pisa-Carp
Besides the cold, above 10/11,000 feet no air. Wheel wells are not pressurized.
Shirley oops surely he knew this.
I'M NOT YELLING.........I'M ITALIAN...........THAT'S HOW WE TALK!


"People say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look."
Ronald Reagan, Inaugural, 1971

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George K
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Finally
VPG
Dec 11 2010, 09:03 AM
Besides the cold, above 10/11,000 feet no air. Wheel wells are not pressurized.
From the FAA:
Quote:
 
(a) General. No person may operate a civil aircraft of
U.S. registry —

(1) At cabin pressure altitudes above 12,500 feet (MSL) up to
and including 14,000 feet (MSL) unless the required minimum
flight crew is provided with and uses supplemental oxygen for
that part of the flight at those altitudes that is of more
than 30 minutes duration;

(2) At cabin pressure altitudes above 14,000 feet (MSL) unless
the required minimum flight crew is provided with and uses
supplemental oxygen during the entire flight time at those
altitudes; and

(3) At cabin pressure altitudes above 15,000 feet (MSL) unless
each occupant of the aircraft is provided with supplemental
oxygen.

Seems that for a pilot, anything below 12.5K feet is OK.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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VPG
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Pisa-Carp
(1) At cabin pressure altitudes above 12,500 feet (MSL) up to
and including 14,000 feet (MSL) unless the required minimum


That's not outside altitude. Wheel well would be true altitude and a person would not be awake/alive very long above 11,000.
I think most Commercial Jets are above 30,000.
In the A F any time above 10,000 even in pressurized cockpits Oxegin had to be flowing and the mask had to be on.
I'M NOT YELLING.........I'M ITALIAN...........THAT'S HOW WE TALK!


"People say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look."
Ronald Reagan, Inaugural, 1971

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apple
one of the angels
oh how sad..
it behooves me to behold
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Well at least they had full body scans or enhanced pat downs.
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Piano*Dad
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Bull-Carp
Quote:
 
Besides the cold, above 10/11,000 feet no air. Wheel wells are not pressurized.
Shirley oops surely he knew this.


Indeed. The usual reason someone "falls" from the wheel well is not because they have nothing to hang onto, but that they are unconscious.
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Copper
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Shortstop
VPG
Dec 11 2010, 09:22 AM
(1) At cabin pressure altitudes above 12,500 feet (MSL) up to
and including 14,000 feet (MSL) unless the required minimum


That's not outside altitude. Wheel well would be true altitude and a person would not be awake/alive very long above 11,000.
I think most Commercial Jets are above 30,000.
In the A F any time above 10,000 even in pressurized cockpits Oxegin had to be flowing and the mask had to be on.

Yes, he would have been dead shortly after leaving NC.

When they dropped the wheels over Milton he fell down.

Another interesting note in the Boston Herald:

Quote:
 

Two cars that drove over the body had “blood tissue” on their undercarriages but no other damage.

The boy’s Nike sneakers and red shirt were found by Milton cops searching along the flight path. Keating said there was a plastic hotel card also found along the flight path that was shattered into tiny pieces, “consistent with something frozen.”



I assume the shoes and shirt were ripped off by the force of the wind/fall.


Here is a story about "Time of useful consciousness" - he wasn't awake for long.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_of_useful_consciousness
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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George K
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Finally
VPG
Dec 11 2010, 09:22 AM
(1) At cabin pressure altitudes above 12,500 feet (MSL) up to
and including 14,000 feet (MSL) unless the required minimum


That's not outside altitude. Wheel well would be true altitude and a person would not be awake/alive very long above 11,000.
I think most Commercial Jets are above 30,000.
In the A F any time above 10,000 even in pressurized cockpits Oxegin had to be flowing and the mask had to be on.
I was surprised to read that as well, Vince. It was always my impression that you have to have O2 on above 10,000 feet. Of course, if you live in the Andes Mountains, and you're acclimatized to that low oxygen level, it's a whole 'nother ball of wax.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Copper
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Shortstop
George K
Dec 11 2010, 10:43 AM
I was surprised to read that as well, Vince. It was always my impression that you have to have O2 on above 10,000 feet.

Vince has the rule right, but the recommendation is 10,000 and 5,000 at night.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
I wonder if anyone has suggested a design change.
If they pressurized and heated the wheel wells and made space for a human in there these deaths would not happen.

I'm not suggesting this.
It's stupid.
I just wouldn't be surprised if someone has considered it
I wouldn't be surprised if cost analysis have been performed.

There's this mentality out there that all human life is so precious that no cost is too great . . . blah blah blah. :doh:
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
kenny
Dec 11 2010, 11:09 AM
I wonder if anyone has suggested a design change.
If they pressurized and heated the wheel wells and made space for a human in there these deaths would not happen.

I'm not suggesting this.
It's stupid.
I just wouldn't be surprised if someone has considered it
I wouldn't be surprised if cost analysis have been performed.

You know how there's this mentality out there that all human life is so precious no cost is too great . . . blah blah blah. :doh:
You can't protect everything and everyone from being an idiot in every single situation.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Luke's Dad
Dec 11 2010, 11:11 AM
kenny
Dec 11 2010, 11:09 AM
I wonder if anyone has suggested a design change.
If they pressurized and heated the wheel wells and made space for a human in there these deaths would not happen.

I'm not suggesting this.
It's stupid.
I just wouldn't be surprised if someone has considered it
I wouldn't be surprised if cost analysis have been performed.

You know how there's this mentality out there that all human life is so precious no cost is too great . . . blah blah blah. :doh:
You can't protect everything and everyone from being an idiot in every single situation.
I totally agree but some people don't.
They want to spend zillions to prevent people from jumping off the Golden Gate bridge.
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JoeB
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Senior Carp
Quote:
 
That's not outside altitude. Wheel well would be true altitude and a person would not be awake/alive very long above 11,000.
I think most Commercial Jets are above 30,000.

I've been to 17,000 ft. without oxygen and didn't have any problems beyond some lightheadedness after 30 minutes or so. Above 30,000 feet or so the partial pressure of oxygen is so low that unconsciousness follows pretty quickly followed eventually by death.
"There are many ingredients in the stew of annoyance." - Bucky Katt
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OperaTenor
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Pisa-Carp
JoeB
Dec 11 2010, 11:18 AM

I've been to 17,000 ft. without oxygen and didn't have any problems beyond some lightheadedness after 30 minutes or so.
Um, Joe, we weren't meaning to say anything to you about this, but since you brought it up...


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Copper
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Shortstop
JoeB
Dec 11 2010, 11:18 AM
Quote:
 
That's not outside altitude. Wheel well would be true altitude and a person would not be awake/alive very long above 11,000.
I think most Commercial Jets are above 30,000.

I've been to 17,000 ft. without oxygen and didn't have any problems beyond some lightheadedness after 30 minutes or so. Above 30,000 feet or so the partial pressure of oxygen is so low that unconsciousness follows pretty quickly followed eventually by death.
Consider this chart:

Posted Image

And then think about the fact that people climb to the top of Everest (29,035 feet) without oxygen.

Time of useful consciousness (TUC) is defined as the amount of time an individual is able to perform flying duties efficiently in an environment of inadequate oxygen supply.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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sue
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HOLY CARP!!!
How sad. To do something so stupid, how crappy was this kid's life?
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