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Gamechanger: Railgun
Topic Started: Dec 10 2010, 04:42 PM (533 Views)
George K
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Finally
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/12/10/navy-railgun-shoots-bullets-electromagnet/
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An electromagnetic railgun offers a velocity previously unattainable in a conventional weapon, speeds that are incredibly powerful on their own. In fact, since the projectile doesn't have any explosives itself, it relies upon that kinetic energy to do damage. And at 11 a.m. today, the Navy produced a 33-megajoule firing -- more than three times the previous record set by the Navy in 2008.

"It bursts radially, but it's hard to quantify," said Roger Ellis, electromagnetic railgun program manager with the Office of Naval Research. To convey a sense of just how much damage, Ellis told FoxNews.com that the big guns on the deck of a warship are measured by their muzzle energy in megajoules. A single megajoule is roughly equivalent to a 1-ton car traveling at 100 mph. Multiple that by 33 and you get a picture of what would happen when such a weapon hits a target.

Ellis says the Navy has invested about $211 million in the program since 2005, since the railgun provides many significant advantages over convention weapons. For one thing, a railgun offers 2 to 3 times the velocity of a conventional big gun, so that it can hit its target within 6 minutes. By contrast, a guided cruise missile travels at subsonic speeds, meaning that the intended target could be gone by the time it reaches its destination.

Furthermore, current U.S. Navy guns can only reach targets about 13 miles away. The railgun being tested today could reach an enemy 100 miles away. And with current GPS guidance systems it could do so with pinpoint accuracy. The Navy hopes to eventually extend the range beyond 200 miles.
"We're also eliminating explosives from the ship, which brings significant safety benefits and logistical benefits," Ellis said. In other words, there is less danger of an unintended explosion onboard, particularly should such a vessel come under attack.

Indeed, a railgun could be used to inflict just such harm on another vessel.

Admiral Carr, who calls the railgun a "disruptive technology," said that not only would a railgun-equipped ship have to carry few if any large explosive warheads, but it could use its enemies own warheads against them. He envisions being able to aim a railgun directly at a magazine on an enemy ship and "let his explosives be your explosives."

There's also a cost and logistical benefit associated with railguns. For example, a single Tomahawk cruise missile costs roughly $600,000. A non-explosive guided railgun projectile could cost much less. And a ship could carry many more, reducing the logistical problems of delivering more weapons to a ship in battle. For these reasons, Admiral Carr sees the railgun as even changing the strategic and tactical assumptions of warfare in the future.

The Navy still has a distance to go, however, before the railgun test becomes a working onboard weapon. Technically, Ellis says they've already overcome several hurdles. The guns themselves generate a terrific amount of heat -- enough to melt the rails inside the barrel -- and power -- enough to force the rails apart, destroying the gun and the barrel in the process.

The projectile is no cannon ball, either. At speeds well above the sound barrier, aerodynamics and special materials must be considered so that it isn't destroyed coming out of the barrel or by heat as it travels at such terrific speeds.

Then there's question of electrical requirements. Up until recently, those requirements simply weren't practical. However, the naval researchers believe they can solve that issue using newer Navy ships and capacitors to build up the charge necessary to blast a railgun projectile out at supersonic speeds. Ellis says they hope to be able to shoot 6 to 12 rounds per minute, "but we're not there yet."

So when will the railgun become a working weapon? Both Ellis and Carr expect fully functional railguns on the decks of U.S. Navy ships in the 2025 time frame.

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Copper
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George K
Dec 10 2010, 04:42 PM

Quote:
 
A single megajoule is roughly equivalent to a 1-ton car traveling at 100 mph. Multiple that by 33 and you get a picture of what would happen when such a weapon hits a target.


This will be a good way to recycle used cars.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
Wow - this is something many of us have been waiting to see for awhile - a railgun with a decent power output.

Long ways off from infantry carrying them due to power requirements, but I can see these being used on gun ships for sure.

Very cool article George.
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
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Piano*Dad
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John D'Oh
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Surely the BFG 9000 is just around the corner!
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Aqua Letifer
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John D'Oh
Dec 10 2010, 05:32 PM
Surely the BFG 9000 is just around the corner!
:lol:

(I had a Mac back then, so I was more of a Marathon player. Zeus Class Fusion Pistol FTW!)
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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1hp
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energy goes with the square of velocity (kinetic energy = 1/2 mv^2) so you get a lot from increasing the velocity of the projectile.
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George K
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Finally
That's why some of the most lethal rifles are high velocity, but with lower mass projectiles.

Jolly, help me here.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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NAK
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Here I thought George had developed an addiction to Quake III Arena.

FIGHT
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
George: It's very true.
You can figure ballistics on many charts and calculators online, and you'll see that the energy delivered at impact goes up pretty significantly as you increase muzzle velocity.
You can take a big sub-sonic round like .45 acp, or S&W 500, and you'd expect the most energy to come out of these rounds, being the biggest - but it isn't the case.
You can take a much smaller rifle round (super sonic) like a .308, and the hydrostatic damage (the radiating field of energy from the round as it travels through a water-based target at high speed) is amazing.

I was playing with a ballistics calculator, and trying to see how much I could change the "power" of my .243 just by ammo choice, and the difference between the high velocity stuff and the "normal" stuff is pretty astounding. As that muzzle velocity increases, the pounds of energy on impact skyrocket - as per 1hp's formula.
Edited by KlavierBauer, Dec 10 2010, 08:53 PM.
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Well.....kinda.

But let me ask a question: If you had to be shot at fairly close range, would you rather be shot with a 22 Hornet or a 45-70? Ballistics tables ain't everything. Where the real bullet hits the bone, is what happens when lead meets meat.

The Navy is combining the best of both worlds...chunk something real big, real fast. You get the frontal area and mass of a big projectile coupled with the kinetic energy of high speed.
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VPG
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So the ships have to have a really, really long extension cord.
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Piano*Dad
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:lol2:
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
VPG
Dec 11 2010, 07:05 AM
So the ships have to have a really, really long extension cord.
Ships are the only military object large enough to power up a railgun.

OTOH, think of a multi-terrawatt lazer on a B-52 sized aircraft. Things that make you go hmmm....
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
Jolly - Understood, and agreed - ballistics aint everything.

Physics tells us pretty dead on though, what happens when supersonic projectiles hit water based targets.
Visible damage may be a very small hole at both ends, while internal damage is massive.
Not disagreeing with you - just also saying that the "numbers don't lie" as it were. For a given mass of an object, the faster it's going, the more energy it displaces kinetically when it hits - by the square of the velocity.
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Look at the Taylor Knock Out theory and charts. I think you'll find them interesting.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
The TKOF very closely follows simple energy calculations *if* your energy calculations take into account the drag coefficient of the specific bullet you're using. The TKOF simply takes the normal inputs (mass/velocity) and figures energy - but adds the diameter of the bullet into the equation - this adds a dimension similar to knowing the drag coefficient, as muzzle velocity isn't a good number for figuring energy between *different rounds* (as a different diameters/shapes will lose that velocity differently depending on distance).
If you take a standard NATO 5.56mm round, and figure its kinetic energy (equating a higher number to higher stopping power), and you compare that one round to itself at different velocities (no need to know diameter or drag coefficient as we're comparing one round to itself), the energy calculator's findings will largely follow the TKOF right? Higher velocity will equal higher ft/lbs of kinetic energy, and will also result in a higher TKOF?
I may be missing something, but the TKOF (mass*velocity*diameter/7000) seems mostly like the same equation with the addition of some accounting for drag coefficient (diameter), and converting to pounds (dividing by 7000, as there are 7000 grains/pound).
Definitely the factors I'm talking about aren't the only factors that go into deciding whether a bullet stops a target - so I see what your'e saying. I'm not arguing that, I'm simply saying that if you take an object, and you know it's speed, and weight - you can figure precisely how much energy it delivers when it hits another object. As you increase that speed, the amount of energy it delivers when it hits the other object goes up drastically - I guess that was my only point.
I learned early on to never get into discussions about "stopping power" with other firearms enthusiasts. If you think discussions on religion is bad...
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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Frank_W
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Resident Misanthrope
It ain't about the stopping power as much as it is, shot placement.
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
Frank: I very much agree.
I wrote a bunch and deleted it, realizing that as per usual, I was becoming too verbose - but I essentially said the same thing - "stopping power" relies a *lot* on where a bullet hits, what path it takes, etc..

A .22LR has great stopping power if it hits the right location. A S&W 500 has no stopping power if you only have 6 rounds, and they all miss their target.
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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Frank_W
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When in civilian attire, I carry a Bersa .380. I'd rather carry a .45, but I'm very accurate, especially at the range at which most gunfights occur, so I don't worry about it too much.
Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
I have a compact Taurus 9mm for carry, but am not as accurate as I am with my Sig P220.
It's larger/heavier obviously.
I don't carry anything at the moment, but that's always the struggle - do I want to carry what I'm comfortable with (yes) or what is easier to carry?
To minimize that discrepancy I try to practice a lot more with the Taurus when I get to the range (which has been WAY too long now).
It was always explained to me that carrying isn't comfortable, it's comforting.
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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Frank_W
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Resident Misanthrope
Well, I think it can be both comfortable and comforting. I'm just so used to carrying all the time, that if I'm NOT carrying, I feel uncomfortable. If carrying your weapon is not at least somewhat comfortable, you will eventually stop carrying it. It's worth trying different holsters or configurations until you find something you can live with on a day-to-day basis.
Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
I agree. Most CCW holders I know have a chest or drawer full of old holsters. :)
Takes awhile to figure out what will fit, be comfortable, useful, etc. (in waist band, outside of waist band, 13 degree cant, no cant, paddle, belt, clip ... AAAHHHH!)
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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Frank_W
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Resident Misanthrope
I've got a simple paddle holster for the .380. If I wear a T-shirt (untucked) or a sweater or a jacket, I can wear it without it "printing" against whatever I'm wearing.

If I'm on the motorcycle, I have a shoulder rig for one of my .45's, made by Galco. It's comfortable and I like it. It doesn't have a chest-strap, so I can even unzip my jacket, and no one knows I'm carrying.

When I'm on duty, of course, I have my triple-retention holster on my duty belt, but I also carry the .380 in an ankle holster.
Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
I don't deal in ballistics, I deal in dead people. And dead animals.

So yep, I admit to being extremely opinionated about stopping power.

But...the first rule of gunfighting, is to make sure you have a gun. If you like Taurus, one that will go almost anywhere:

http://www.taurususa.com/product-details.cfm?id=682&category=Pistol

The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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