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| Question for any structural engineers out there; My house appears to be sinking :( | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 8 2010, 11:39 AM (876 Views) | |
| Cathys | Dec 8 2010, 11:39 AM Post #1 |
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Senior Carp
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I was hoping never to have to ask for this type of advice but it appears we have structural issues with our house in Virginia. We've been in the house for almost 4 years and the house is about 20 years old. Shortly after we moved in we noticed some cracking in the plaster of the upstairs hall and a couple of other spots. We just chalked it up to normal settling but the upstairs crack has continued to grow and a few of the doors are hard to shut or open. I contacted our homeowner's agent, who put us in touch with a couple local contractors and we had a foundation contracting company out last night and they confirmed our worst fears, the house seems to have sunk/shifted and needs shoring up on both ends. They are talking about putting piers all around the west end of the house and also at the wall between the house and the garage. Significant money!! I've called around and these guys seem very reputable and the work is warranted with a transferable warranty (if we sell the house). I also discovered that it is very unlikely that our homeowners will cover this type of settling. I know, stuff I should have already known :(. We will need to get this done if we ever want to sell, I'm actually suspecting the previous owner should have disclosed but we had the home inspected and it wasn't discovered, so they may not have been aware. Is there anyone out there that has dealt with these types of issues; is this something we need to take care of asap (I suspect so) but my procrastinating nature and pocket book would like to push it out a bit. If we do start this work sooner than later we will have to do it in phases as we really can't afford the whole chunk at once. Thoughts/Advice all welcome, I've never run into this before and in Colorado you deal with a lot of soil issues but it was a new build there, so we had the builder who was warranted to take care of any major issues. I guess it never occurred to me that there would be soil issues in Virginia too. Thanks in advance for any guidance |
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| ivorythumper | Dec 8 2010, 11:47 AM Post #2 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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My first advice would be to have a structural engineer (registered) come out and evaluate. You could dump a lot of money into a contractor's solution but unless it is engineered (esp. based on the soil bearing test), then it might be either a more expensive solution than required (a contractor basing it off of previous experience might just overkill it but that costs you more money) or might not address the real underlying issue in which case you spent a lot of money and then have to try to get them to perform on the warranty, which can be a nightmare and costly. |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| Cathys | Dec 8 2010, 11:54 AM Post #3 |
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Senior Carp
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Thanks IT, that is what I was thinking of doing also, since that person won't have a vested interest in the cost of the solution and could hopefully give me an unbiased evaluation. |
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| Dewey | Dec 8 2010, 12:12 PM Post #4 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Yeah, what IT said.
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| KlavierBauer | Dec 8 2010, 12:15 PM Post #5 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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This is great advice - thanks to all of you. We're facing something similar in our house actually, where we've noticed that on our lower level, there's now a gap of 1.5 inches or so between the sheetrock and the baseboard. It's noticeable, because you can see where the calk has stayed attached to the wall, and to the baseboard, and the gap in between. We have floating walls on that level, so the wall isn't sinking with the bottom, but I fear that the foundation is moving - and we live on a large hill. I'd hate for this to be a super major issue, though it worries both Mrs.KB and I a bit - so the advice to get a structural engineer out is a great idea. I think Mrs.KB already suggested this to me, and I was hesitant, so I'll have to apologize nicely, and (as always) tell her she was right. |
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"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper "He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple | |
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| Improviso | Dec 8 2010, 03:14 PM Post #6 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Cathy, I've never personally dealt with this. But the problem you describe is common in Virginia. It sounds like *Shrink/Swell* soil issues. It's been a fairly common problem in the Richmond area. Didn't realize it might be down your way too. Shrink/Swell soil issues involve the varying amounts of moisture in the soil. Wet periods, the soil swells. Dry periods, the soil shrinks. This affects the load bearing ability of the soil. Here in Richmond, we've heard cases where the chimney physically separated from the house. The real question is, is it getting worse and is it continuing? Maybe it's stopped. Check around the brick foundation to see if you see any cracking in the brick mortar. That might be a clue as to whether it's serious or not. As to whether it needs attention ASAP, it depends on whether the issues are structural or cosmetic. As has been recommended, get a structural guy in to assess the situation to determine the extent of the problem. He may even recommend, if it is shrink/swell soil, to stabilize the soil by keeping it moist in dry weather periods. |
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Identifying narcissists isn't difficult. Just look for the person who is constantly fishing for compliments and admiration while breaking down over even the slightest bit of criticism. We have the freedom to choose our actions, but we do not get to choose our consequences. | |
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| Cathys | Dec 8 2010, 04:06 PM Post #7 |
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Senior Carp
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Thanks Improv - That does sound like what we're dealing with. I'm not sure if it is getting worse but we definitely have a crack outside in the brick on the west side of the house. Pointed out when the guy came out yesterday. We are trying to find an independent person that can come out and give us a 2nd opinion. We know a person that does structural engineering on the commercial side and we are going to see if he can recommend an engineer that can come out and do an independent assessment. You don't happen to know of anyone in the area?? |
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| Improviso | Dec 8 2010, 04:10 PM Post #8 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Sure don't Cathy. As I said, I've not had to deal with this personally. Might check, if you feel comfortable with it, with some neighbors to see if they have had issues. If it's common in your area, you might be surprised at the war stories they will tell. |
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Identifying narcissists isn't difficult. Just look for the person who is constantly fishing for compliments and admiration while breaking down over even the slightest bit of criticism. We have the freedom to choose our actions, but we do not get to choose our consequences. | |
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| Frank_W | Dec 8 2010, 04:14 PM Post #9 |
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Resident Misanthrope
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my brain reeled as I saw the mighty walls rushing asunder—there was a long tumultuous shouting sound like the voice of a thousand waters—and the deep and dank tarn at my feet closed sullenly and silently over the fragments of the "House of Usher." -Edgar Allan Poe "The House Of Usher" Seriously: Good luck, Cathy! Hope it's nothing terribly expensive...
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Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin." Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!" | |
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| Cathys | Dec 8 2010, 04:26 PM Post #10 |
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Senior Carp
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Actually Mark just headed down to a neighbor at the end of our street. They have a sign out front from the company we got a quote from. Going to see what they had done and what they think of the outfit. Thanks Frank, we're hoping but it's not looking good.... |
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| Frank_W | Dec 8 2010, 04:36 PM Post #11 |
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Resident Misanthrope
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I had a buddy down the street from me, that just did his house. He basically had to get under the crawlspace with a couple of jacks, jack up the joists that were starting to sag, do some kind of back-filling, then cut out the rotten pieces of the joists and splice new stuff into it. He did all of the work himself, along with his two sons. Probably best to have a professional do it, though... |
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Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin." Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!" | |
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| Improviso | Dec 8 2010, 04:46 PM Post #12 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Identifying narcissists isn't difficult. Just look for the person who is constantly fishing for compliments and admiration while breaking down over even the slightest bit of criticism. We have the freedom to choose our actions, but we do not get to choose our consequences. | |
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| Cathys | Dec 8 2010, 04:52 PM Post #13 |
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Senior Carp
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Wow - That is the company that came out yesterday. Recommended by our insurance agent and a local general contractor she had me contact. Still trying to get that second opinion but at least it looks like they aren't a fly by nighter
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| Piano*Dad | Dec 8 2010, 04:53 PM Post #14 |
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Bull-Carp
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I was going to mention the shrink/swell issue but Improv beat me to it. Shrink/swell soil issues are often mapped out. Has your area been so mapped? This is partly an issue for soil examiners, not just contractors. |
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| Improviso | Dec 8 2010, 05:02 PM Post #15 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Probably showed up this year due to the extremely wet spring we had followed by the dry summer. We just got off mandatory waters restrictions several weeks ago. Lake Chesdin, which is a drinking water supply lake for my area, was bone dry till that Nor'eastern come thru here and dumped 13 inches of rain. |
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Identifying narcissists isn't difficult. Just look for the person who is constantly fishing for compliments and admiration while breaking down over even the slightest bit of criticism. We have the freedom to choose our actions, but we do not get to choose our consequences. | |
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| Frank_W | Dec 8 2010, 05:03 PM Post #16 |
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Resident Misanthrope
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Is there a lot of limestone in that area? We have similar issues here, and we have lots of limestone, here. |
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Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin." Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!" | |
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| Improviso | Dec 8 2010, 05:04 PM Post #17 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Limestone isn't the issue in our area Frank. It's expansive clay soil. Cathy, I'd be interested in hearing what Mark found out from your neighbor. |
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Identifying narcissists isn't difficult. Just look for the person who is constantly fishing for compliments and admiration while breaking down over even the slightest bit of criticism. We have the freedom to choose our actions, but we do not get to choose our consequences. | |
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| Cathys | Dec 8 2010, 05:50 PM Post #18 |
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Senior Carp
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He just got back and I was showing him the posts. He said that is exactly what the neighbor's issue was. He's a bit closer to the water and they are currently putting in a second set of piers. The first set was at one side (I think he said 14 piers) and they had to drill pretty far down before they hit bedrock. That was a few years back. He hasn't had any more issues on that side but the other side starting having the same issues with the cracking and they are putting twice as many piers in now. He's really happy with their work but it was discouraging to hear that he had to have more work done after the initial. Since we have issues on both sides I'm hoping we won't run into that but I want to see what we find out from an engineer. It'll be worth it to pay for the additional inspection for the peace of mind. |
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| Frank_W | Dec 9 2010, 05:23 AM Post #19 |
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Resident Misanthrope
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Yeah... We have a lot of clay here, too. Nasty stuff. |
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Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin." Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!" | |
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| JBryan | Dec 9 2010, 05:30 AM Post #20 |
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I am the grey one
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In my home town of Casper, WY there is an area that was developed where there was a high concentration of bentonite in the soil. It was a complete nightmare for the folks who bought these houses. Just watering the lawn would crack the foundation. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| Qaanaaq-Liaaq | Dec 9 2010, 08:00 AM Post #21 |
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Senior Carp
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A preconstruction boring/coring soil sample should have been taken before your house was built. It’s not like your house is 100 years old and predating scientific soil analysis. My sister arranged to have a new construction house built. Her house is about the same age as your house: 20 years old. A few months before any construction started, a mobile drilling rig showed up at the site of her future house to take soil samples. It’s a truck with a drill on the back. The drill bores down a certain no. of feet, takes soil samples, and sends it to a lab for analysis. This way the architect and structural engineer know what the earth situation is below the house. |
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| KlavierBauer | Dec 9 2010, 09:50 AM Post #22 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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JBryan: I was just going to bring up bentonite... It's a huge issue here in Colorado - and we assume that's what's going on with our moving foundation. Nobody in Colorado has a driveway without major cracks in it - it's just a fact of life here. I can mud-jack the driveway and the sidewalk - that doesn't bother me. What worries me is the back of the house slowly sliding away from the front of the house. Is this something insurance might cover? If not - how much is one looking at spending to fix foundation damage and/or move the foundation around? Is this a $5k fix? $10k? $20k? |
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"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper "He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple | |
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| Cathys | Dec 9 2010, 01:54 PM Post #23 |
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Senior Carp
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Yep - I'm very familiar with Bentonite. KB I thought it would be but was apparently mis-informed when it comes to insurance. Our agent and the foundation guy said it is rare for the insurance policy to cover any ground issues unless they stem from an event, like severe storm, earthquake, etc... Swelling or expansive soils are apparently normal events that a homeowner should be wary of. As far as expense, I imagine it can vary greatly but we are probably looking at >$25K for ours, the neighbor down the street is going to be nearly twice that (larger house and more extensive movement issues with the second visit). As far as soil samples, they may have done that when the house was built (they did it when we had our house built in Colorado). The house here was built long before we ever owned it and I have no idea where we would find any records of soil tests that were done at the time; maybe the county records? Do they maintain that or does it just stay with the builder and original homeowner? Edited by Cathys, Dec 9 2010, 01:55 PM.
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| jon-nyc | Dec 10 2010, 03:04 AM Post #24 |
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Cheers
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Cathy - I have nothing to add in the way of advice, but just want to give you my best wishes that this can be resolved easily and without too much expense. |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| Cathys | Dec 10 2010, 04:26 AM Post #25 |
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Senior Carp
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Thank you Jon |
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Seriously: Good luck, Cathy! Hope it's nothing terribly expensive...



11:04 AM Jul 11