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| Buddhism | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 8 2010, 08:08 AM (5,161 Views) | |
| Frank_W | Dec 8 2010, 11:47 AM Post #51 |
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Resident Misanthrope
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Yeah, but what also makes Christianity unique, is that people can live like hell their whole lives, and if they say the magic words and pray the fire insurance prayer, then they are saved and they never have to pay for what they've done, and they get to go to the same Heaven as someone who has led a good and faithful life. And on the other hand, someone who has led a good life and heeded their conscience and done their best, gets sent to a place of eternal Hell, torture, and torment, with no hope of reprieve forever and ever. Basically, they get thrown in the Cosmic Sh!tcan. I have a real problem with the whole theology. I think it's absolutely wrong. |
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Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin." Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!" | |
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| KlavierBauer | Dec 8 2010, 11:48 AM Post #52 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Probably not a discussion for anytime then, if that's really your understanding of things. We'd probably have a very different understandings of history, Christianity, and .. apparently logic and the understanding of linear accounting of time. |
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"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper "He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple | |
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| KlavierBauer | Dec 8 2010, 11:49 AM Post #53 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Wrong - that is not a teaching of Christianity. I understand that some modern branches interpret it that way though - so the misunderstanding is completely understandable. Not a teaching of the church though... |
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"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper "He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple | |
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| Frank_W | Dec 8 2010, 11:52 AM Post #54 |
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Resident Misanthrope
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Okay: What is the actual teaching, then? This is what I've always understood about Christianity: You can be the worst sort of blackheart, cheat, scoundrel, fraud, or murderer, but if you accept Jesus, then you go to Heaven. Presto!! You don't have to pay for anything you've done. I've always wondered what a murder victim would say, if h/she saw the person who murdered them, walking around in Heaven. |
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Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin." Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!" | |
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| Aqua Letifer | Dec 8 2010, 11:53 AM Post #55 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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Well, those who subscribe to Christianity Lite™ may certainly try to cheat the system like that, but I don't personally think God lets us pull fast ones. ![]() Along those lines though, that's what I find to be a fundamental difference between Western and Eastern philosophies. Western schools of thought very often focus on the afterlife. Sure life here on Earth sucks but it's all not important, look how awesome things are when you pass on! Eastern philosophies in general tend to focus more on what we're doing right here in the present moment. Which I think is important, because regardless of the situation in the afterlife I think it's important to "do what you can with what you have where you are," as Teddy Roosevelt said. |
| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| kenny | Dec 8 2010, 11:54 AM Post #56 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I wonder if Buddhists fight and argue about which flavor got it right. |
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| Frank_W | Dec 8 2010, 11:54 AM Post #57 |
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Resident Misanthrope
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I subscribe to Teddy Roosevelt's philosophy. Or, to couch it in spiritual terms: "Grow where you're planted." |
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Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin." Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!" | |
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| sue | Dec 8 2010, 11:55 AM Post #58 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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+1 That's exactly why I have no respect for that nonsense. |
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| Frank_W | Dec 8 2010, 11:55 AM Post #59 |
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Resident Misanthrope
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And yes, Buddhists fight and argue amongst themselves, because there are several different sects of Buddhism. |
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Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin." Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!" | |
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| Larry | Dec 8 2010, 11:56 AM Post #60 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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No offense intended Frank, but if I didn't have any better an understanding of it than that, I'd probably feel the same way you do. That's not how it works, however. |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| Aqua Letifer | Dec 8 2010, 11:56 AM Post #61 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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Trust me, they're people. I'm sure they do. Just as I'm sure some of them realize it's not a constructive way to spend your time. |
| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| Frank_W | Dec 8 2010, 11:56 AM Post #62 |
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Resident Misanthrope
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Me either, Sue. I find it absolutely impossible to believe, even if I wanted to. (And I tried, for years!!) |
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Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin." Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!" | |
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| Frank_W | Dec 8 2010, 11:57 AM Post #63 |
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Resident Misanthrope
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Okay: Then I'll ask again: Please explain it to me. |
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Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin." Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!" | |
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| Aqua Letifer | Dec 8 2010, 11:59 AM Post #64 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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Not to butt in, but this was my short explanation to Larry that's also relevant to what you're asking. |
| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| KlavierBauer | Dec 8 2010, 12:01 PM Post #65 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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AL: +1 ... and here I thought I had coined the term "Christianity Lite!" Frank: The early Church Fathers had a lot of different ideas about salvation. Some thought that in the end, every one would repent and be saved - including Lucifer. This idea of "Universalism" is still held by some - but not all. It's certainly not an official teaching of the church, but the idea remains that we don't speak concretely about how things work. Essentially, the Early Church taught that one has their own "project" or path to get to God. One's quest for working out the salvation of their soul is not the same as another's, and as such we're always cautioned not to be concerned with others' paths. In this sense, we can't look at the Thief and say "Well he was saved at the very end - I will be too!" A very early idea in Christianity is that each is judged based on "what they know." This makes it difficult to knowingly do the things you shouldn't, and simply say a magic word to reverse it. The idea never really existed in the church though, that you simply raise your hand and say "I accept!" and you're magically saved. In the example of the Thief, it is assumed that he is truly repentant in his heart, as he sees Christ dying on the cross and suddenly has a new level of understanding in his life. While he is seemingly magically accepted for simply accepting Christ for who he says he is, he is also assumed to have a true change of heart at this point. I can't claim to have a change of heart and be truly repentant (which literally translated means to "re think") if I'm knowingly, and willingly doing things I know I shouldn't up until the last second. Saying a series of words doesn't save anyone - it's a change in life and in heart - a change towards repentance which accomplishes this - and yes, it can happen at the very end. For all of us though - it will have to be very genuine, from the best of us, to the worst. Being saved isn't about doing good, or doing bad - it's not a measuring contest of who does best - there are enough parables about this concept. The truly repentant being right, even though they're living a worse life, and the law abiding members of the community being wrong, because of their pride in doing the right things. There's a lot more to it than that of course - but to address the notion that one simply holds up their hands at a crusade and yells "I believe!" and is written into the "Book of Life" isn't an early teaching of Christianity, and isn't what Christ taught. It is however, frequently taught in the modern church. |
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"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper "He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple | |
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| kluurs | Dec 8 2010, 12:03 PM Post #66 |
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Fulla-Carp
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Some Buddhist sects believe in deities. Some do not. Some believe in reincarnation - some not. As for the soul - not so much the denial, just not a focus. Does one have to believe that the earth is the center of the universe in order to be Christian? Does one have to believe that our bodies will be physically reborn to be a Christian? Does one have to believe that the Bible is historically accurate in every detail in order to be Christian? Some Christians believe pre-marital sex is Ok - some not. Some Christians believe divorce is forbidden - some not. There are some "Christians" who believe being a Christian is going to church on two holidays a year. There are Christians who believe they can lead whatever life they choose so long as on their deathbed they say, "I believe." Similarly, there are differences in what is a Buddhist. Again, some Christians won't define other Christians as "Christian" and likewise will have trouble with thinking someone who practices Buddhism can be a Christian, but my view is that it is possible - and there have been Christian priests and theologians who have studied Buddhism, considered themselves practicing Buddhists with no sense of incompatibility with being Christian. |
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| Larry | Dec 8 2010, 12:04 PM Post #67 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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Actually, yes they do. Theravada Buddhism teaches that only an elite few will attain nirvana, known as "The Lesser Way". They believe that Buddha was just a great teacher, nothing more. Mahayana Buddhism teaches that salvation is for all people, not just a few, "The Greater Way". They believe that Buddha was a God. This is the most popular form of Buddhism. In Japan it's Soka Gokkai, a militant, nationalistic cult. Then there is the sect in Tibet that worships demons. |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| KlavierBauer | Dec 8 2010, 12:04 PM Post #68 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Kluurs: great post... |
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"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper "He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple | |
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| kenny | Dec 8 2010, 12:10 PM Post #69 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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So with Buddhism, as with Christianity, there is no urtext - unless you think there is. |
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| Frank_W | Dec 8 2010, 12:11 PM Post #70 |
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Resident Misanthrope
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Thanks, everyone. Good food for thought. |
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Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin." Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!" | |
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| Aqua Letifer | Dec 8 2010, 12:12 PM Post #71 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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If we're all going to be serious here for a moment, let's talk Laugh Test. All it takes is simple intuition to tell you how seriously to take Buddhists. Evil armies can be easily determined by how they march, and nutters give themselves away by the clothes they wear. That's right folks. Bright hunter orange. The international color for nutters. |
| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| Frank_W | Dec 8 2010, 12:19 PM Post #72 |
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Resident Misanthrope
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Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin." Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!" | |
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| John D'Oh | Dec 8 2010, 12:19 PM Post #73 |
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MAMIL
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As a good Catholic boy, I believe that you're sitting in a very large glass house to be throwing the silly clothes stones.
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| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| Aqua Letifer | Dec 8 2010, 12:22 PM Post #74 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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What? I don't wear the robes, or the hat. That's Benedict's thing. I just assume religious guys swing differently over there in Europe. |
| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| John D'Oh | Dec 8 2010, 12:27 PM Post #75 |
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MAMIL
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Oh, you're just a Sunday morning Catholic. I hope for your sake that your clothes are fire-retardent.
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| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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