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If convicted, Pfc Bradley Manning should :
be shot in a military execution 4 (22.2%)
receive some other form of capital punishment 0 (0%)
be given a life sentence 3 (16.7%)
be imprisoned for about 52 years (the estimated sentence) 5 (27.8%)
be given a substantially lesser sentence 2 (11.1%)
be immediately released by presidential pardon for his heroism and the fact that he is gay 2 (11.1%)
do the talk show circuit (esp Oprah), be given his own talk show, book deal, get on the A list in Hollywood and the WH, etc. 2 (11.1%)
other____________________ 0 (0%)
Total Votes: 18
PFC BRADLEY MANNING
Topic Started: Nov 29 2010, 01:56 PM (928 Views)
ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
I am trying to think of a really good reason that Pfc Bradley Manning should not be shot as a traitor. So far I am coming up empty...
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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sue
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HOLY CARP!!!
He joined at 20, and was in a position to read these kinds of documents within 3 years of service?! How about looking into how and why that happened.

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Piano*Dad
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Bull-Carp
If he is ultimately released, I hope that occurs so far in the future that no one will give a brass farthing for his recollections.
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George K
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Finally
If life meant "life" I'd be good with that.

At hard, hard labor.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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kluurs
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Fulla-Carp
Why no option with the words "wood chipper" in it?
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Copper
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Shortstop

Is he a republican or a democrat?
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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George K
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Finally
Copper
Nov 29 2010, 03:00 PM
Is he a republican or a democrat?
That changes everything. Thanks, Copper. :veryangry:
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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kluurs
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Fulla-Carp
Copper
Nov 29 2010, 03:00 PM
Is he a republican or a democrat?
Seems anti-government - must be libertarian... :tongue:
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George K
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Finally
ivorythumper
Nov 29 2010, 01:56 PM
I am trying to think of a really good reason that Pfc Bradley Manning should not be shot as a traitor. So far I am coming up empty...
Do you support capital punishment, IT?
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
It should be at least number three but it will probably end up being seven.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
George K
Nov 29 2010, 03:39 PM
ivorythumper
Nov 29 2010, 01:56 PM
I am trying to think of a really good reason that Pfc Bradley Manning should not be shot as a traitor. So far I am coming up empty...
Do you support capital punishment, IT?
Yes, in principle.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
kluurs
Nov 29 2010, 02:53 PM
Why no option with the words "wood chipper" in it?
That would be "receive some other form of capital punishment" administered by Steve Buscemi.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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George K
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Finally
ivorythumper
Nov 29 2010, 05:37 PM
George K
Nov 29 2010, 03:39 PM
ivorythumper
Nov 29 2010, 01:56 PM
I am trying to think of a really good reason that Pfc Bradley Manning should not be shot as a traitor. So far I am coming up empty...
Do you support capital punishment, IT?
Yes, in principle.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but I do have questions:

1) Would the death penalty imposed by a military court be as likely to be error free as that imposed by a civilian court? We know that civilian courts are fraught with error - and that may even be the case in capital cases (though I'm too lazy to look it up).

2) What crimes are capital, besides premeditated murder? Treason?

Perhaps this warrants another thread...
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
1) I think the standard for conviction is lower in military court (simple majority rather than unanimous) -- I don't know if that applies to capital cases though. I think the problem of error is a serious concern, which is why I support it in principle, but am concerned about the application. IOW, I think that the State certainly has the right to execute, but does not necessarily need to exercise that right and it might be often more prudent to not. And in our present state of society, the remedy of life imprisonment is a strong option.

2) Treason certainly because it is a direct offense against the common good (the very order of society). In addition to what you mention, I would include rape (arguable, but I think a strong case can be made) and cowardice on the battlefield.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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sue
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HOLY CARP!!!
ivorythumper
Nov 29 2010, 05:53 PM
and cowardice on the battlefield.
wow. I'm sure you have your reasons for feeling that way, but I can't help but think that those of us sitting all nice and comfy in our warm houses, tapping away on our computers, have any call to criticise someone's panic on the battlefield.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
sue
Nov 29 2010, 06:49 PM
ivorythumper
Nov 29 2010, 05:53 PM
and cowardice on the battlefield.
wow. I'm sure you have your reasons for feeling that way, but I can't help but think that those of us sitting all nice and comfy in our warm houses, tapping away on our computers, have any call to criticise someone's panic on the battlefield.
Yes, the reason is simply that soldiers have to fight and not run away. Knowing that they *will* die if they run away should an important incentive for them to risk that they *may* die if they fight.

It has nothing to do with anyone's circumstances and everything to do with what is necessary to win wars so that we can sit all nice and comfy in our warm houses.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Copper
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Shortstop
sue
Nov 29 2010, 06:49 PM
ivorythumper
Nov 29 2010, 05:53 PM
and cowardice on the battlefield.
wow. I'm sure you have your reasons for feeling that way, but I can't help but think that those of us sitting all nice and comfy in our warm houses, tapping away on our computers, have any call to criticise someone's panic on the battlefield.

It's not just those in the comfy homes.

It's the guys doing the fighting who agree:

http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/mcm/bl99.htm
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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1hp
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Fulla-Carp

My question is how does a pfc get access to information on what diplomats are reporting on their counterparts, especially given that the leaks cover many countries? Something is totally screwed up in the land of classified information.
There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those that understand binary and................
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
1hp
Nov 29 2010, 08:56 PM
My question is how does a pfc get access to information on what diplomats are reporting on their counterparts, especially given that the leaks cover many countries? Something is totally screwed up in the land of classified information.
I wonder if he hacked...
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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sue
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HOLY CARP!!!
ivorythumper
Nov 29 2010, 07:21 PM
sue
Nov 29 2010, 06:49 PM
ivorythumper
Nov 29 2010, 05:53 PM
and cowardice on the battlefield.
wow. I'm sure you have your reasons for feeling that way, but I can't help but think that those of us sitting all nice and comfy in our warm houses, tapping away on our computers, have any call to criticise someone's panic on the battlefield.
Yes, the reason is simply that soldiers have to fight and not run away. Knowing that they *will* die if they run away should an important incentive for them to risk that they *may* die if they fight.

It has nothing to do with anyone's circumstances and everything to do with what is necessary to win wars so that we can sit all nice and comfy in our warm houses.
Soldiers are people too. Quite often pretty young people. And people panic and screw up. We don't go around putting police officers to death if they freeze and endanger another officer. They may lose their position, their job, but we don't kill them.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Yes, I understand that. War is another level of threat to the order of society and the good of the entire nation that has all sorts of higher standards and greater importance than fighting crime. A crime that is not stopped cannot destroy a nation. A lost battle can. This is why nations equip their soldiers more than their police departments.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
I for one am looking forward to that talk show.
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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Frank_W
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Resident Misanthrope
The first time you get shot at, it's literally pants-pissing terrifying. The second time, it's not as bad, and in fact, the overriding emotion is one of outrage and anger. The third time, it's just, Aw, sh!t... I was right in the middle of chow, too! Those motherfvckers are going to pay!
Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
Overcoming fear with anger has always worked for me.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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Frank_W
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Resident Misanthrope
Yep. ;) :thumb:
Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
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