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Doctors v. Guns
Topic Started: Aug 17 2010, 01:45 PM (1,089 Views)
Kincaid
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HOLY CARP!!!
My apologies if this has been posted before (and I make no claims about the accuracy of the statistics):


Doctors


(A) The number of physicians in the U.S. is 700,000.


(B) Accidental deaths caused by Physicians per year are 120,000.


(C) Accidental deaths per physician is 0.171


Statistics courtesy of U.S. Dept of Health and Human Services.

Now think about this:


Guns


(A) The number of gun owners in the U.S. is 80,000,000.
(Yes, that's 80 million)

(B) The number of accidental gun deaths per year, all age groups, is 1,500.

(C) The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is .0000188


Statistics courtesy of FBI


So, statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners.


Remember, 'Guns don't kill people, doctors do.'


FACT: NOT EVERYONE HAS A GUN, BUT

Almost everyone has at least one doctor.

This means you are over 9,000 times more likely to be killed by a doctor as
by a gun owner!!!



Please alert your friends to this alarming threat.


We must ban doctors before this gets completely out of hand!!!!!


Out of concern for the public at large,

We withheld the statistics on lawyers for fear the shock would cause people to panic and seek medical attention!



Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Maybe if we relax those draconian licensing laws for doctors, then they'll be as safe as guns.

(It's a joke, gun whackjobs enthusiasts)
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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George K
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Finally
It's all true (especially the lawyer part at the end).

Trust me, I'm a doctor.
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
"Accidental deaths"?

What are the stats for "intentional deaths"?
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Quote:
 
(B) Accidental deaths caused by Physicians per year are 120,000.
That's almost 40 times the number of deaths caused by the 9/11 terrorist attack. May be the $Trillion spent on the Afghan and Iraq wars and the $Billions spent on revamping airport security could have been better spent improving healthcare safety.
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
Axtremus
Aug 18 2010, 02:13 AM
"Accidental deaths"?

What are the stats for "intentional deaths"?
Careful, you're about to start an abortion thread.
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
Heh.

In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Dewey
Aug 18 2010, 03:09 AM
Axtremus
Aug 18 2010, 02:13 AM
"Accidental deaths"?

What are the stats for "intentional deaths"?
Careful, you're about to start an abortion thread.
Bring it! :sword:
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
Intentional deaths are most certainly higher with guns - but that's not saying anything. All you need to accomplish intentional death is intent.

The fact that accidental gun deaths are so low, should ease people's concerns about conceal carry laws and more guns being out in public.
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Well, if lots of people who carry guns "intend" to kill, then that wouldn't ease people's concerns about guns being available.

A gangster (think drive-by shooting) or an assassin (think DC shooter a few years back) or a crazed gunman (a la Columbine) all killed with guns, but none of their murders would be considered "accidental death," and wouldn't be captured by the "accidental death" statistics. Yet those are the scenarios that concern people.
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
Axtremus
Aug 19 2010, 12:42 PM
Well, if lots of people who carry guns "intend" to kill, then that wouldn't ease people's concerns about guns being available.

A gangster (think drive-by shooting) or an assassin (think DC shooter a few years back) or a crazed gunman (a la Columbine) all killed with guns, but none of their murders would be considered "accidental death," and wouldn't be captured by the "accidental death" statistics. Yet those are the scenarios that concern people.
You're right. They ought to do something to stop people from intentionally killing other people with guns. Make it illegal or something.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
I understand - the point is that what concerns most folks are those particular people - not guns.
If they were intellectually honest with themselves they'd see that.
Columbine for example (I'm looking at that part of Littleton right now through my office window) wasn't just about guns - there were plenty of explosives involved as well. Thankfully they never got to the bombs - the point remains though - the two individuals didn't require guns to be dangerous (and in fact could've left them at home and done more damage).
More people are injured by gang members themselves than by gang members with guns. The guns are dangerous to be certain - but while a handful of such deaths occur every day, the number of robberies and beatings exceeds this.
Finally - I mentioned people's concerns in the context of conceal carry. The people and situations you mentioned are a red herring. They don't apply to the premise, which is about conceal carry (in the context of people's concerns).
If you're making a separate point entirely, then I agree. People rightly have concern about outlaws using guns to commit crimes. It's a strong argument for more conceal/carry rather than less.
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
KlavierBauer
Aug 19 2010, 12:53 PM
I understand - the point is that what concerns most folks are those particular people - not guns.
Is the point that what concerns most folks are those particular regimes (Saddam, Kim, Ahmedinajjad) - not nukes?

If you make nukes "less available", you reduce the likelihood of "those particular regimes" getting their hands on nukes -- so you enforce the NPT.

If you make guns "less available", you reduce the likelihood of "those particular people" getting their hands on guns -- so you narrow the 2nd Amendment.

If you don't believe that the "availability" of guns affect firearms homicide rates, just see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence#Homicides_by_country and compare "Firearm homicide rate
per 100,000 pop." , you will see that US ranks the highest among developed countries -- 5x the rate of Canada, for instance.
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
Axtremus
Aug 19 2010, 01:09 PM
KlavierBauer
Aug 19 2010, 12:53 PM
I understand - the point is that what concerns most folks are those particular people - not guns.
Is the point that what concerns most folks are those particular regimes (Saddam, Kim, Ahmedinajjad) - not nukes?

If you make nukes "less available", you reduce the likelihood of "those particular regimes" getting their hands on nukes -- so you enforce the NPT.

If you make guns "less available", you reduce the likelihood of "those particular people" getting their hands on guns -- so you narrow the 2nd Amendment.

If you don't believe that the "availability" of guns affect firearms homicide rates, just see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence#Homicides_by_country and compare "Firearm homicide rate
per 100,000 pop." , you will see that US ranks the highest among developed countries -- 5x the rate of Canada, for instance.
And from your very link:

Quote:
 
In the United States, cities tend to have higher criminal gun violence rates but lower rates of gun ownership, compared with rural areas which tend to have lower criminal gun violence rates but higher rates of gun ownership


Quote:
 
In 2005, Wyoming had the highest number of homes with loaded and unlocked guns in the United States, at 33% of all homes in the state,[28] and had a homicide rate of 1.7 of every 100,000
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
Why 1.7? That's only .12 higher than the vaunted Canada homicide rate you pointed out.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Compare urban areas to rural areas -- potential targets are more spread out in rural areas, so fewer potential targets to shoot at within a unit area.

Compare urban areas to urban areas -- compare to Singapore, and this is what the article says "Singapore has the second highest population density in the world (almost 6,814 people per square kilometer, or about 50% more densely populated than Chicago, Illinois) but has the lowest level of gun violence of all the countries in the table above. Its rate of gun violence is 99 times lower than that of the United States which is 200 times less densely populated. The only way for a civilian to own a firearm in Singapore is to acquire an Arm & Explosives license."
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Luke's Dad
Aug 19 2010, 01:18 PM
Why 1.7? That's only .12 higher than the vaunted Canada homicide rate you pointed out.
Huh? Canada's rate is 0.54 per 100,000. You sure you read the right data point? :huh:
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
Axtremus
Aug 19 2010, 01:22 PM
Compare urban areas to rural areas -- potential targets are more spread out in rural areas, so fewer potential targets to shoot at within a unit area.

Compare urban areas to urban areas -- compare to Singapore, and this is what the article says "Singapore has the second highest population density in the world (almost 6,814 people per square kilometer, or about 50% more densely populated than Chicago, Illinois) but has the lowest level of gun violence of all the countries in the table above. Its rate of gun violence is 99 times lower than that of the United States which is 200 times less densely populated. The only way for a civilian to own a firearm in Singapore is to acquire an Arm & Explosives license."
Argument doesn't wash, as their "Non-firearm Homicide Rate" is far below just about everybody else's as well. That indicates that Singapore is an aberration. Find out why their over-all homicide rate is so low, then we have something to talk about.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
Axtremus
Aug 19 2010, 01:24 PM
Luke's Dad
Aug 19 2010, 01:18 PM
Why 1.7? That's only .12 higher than the vaunted Canada homicide rate you pointed out.
Huh? Canada's rate is 0.54 per 100,000. You sure you read the right data point? :huh:
That's overall homicide rate for Wyoming vs overall homicide rate of Canada.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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Copper
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Shortstop
Luke's Dad
Aug 19 2010, 01:28 PM
Axtremus
Aug 19 2010, 01:24 PM
Luke's Dad
Aug 19 2010, 01:18 PM
Why 1.7? That's only .12 higher than the vaunted Canada homicide rate you pointed out.
Huh? Canada's rate is 0.54 per 100,000. You sure you read the right data point? :huh:
That's overall homicide rate for Wyoming vs overall homicide rate of Canada.

That's because Canadian doctors can't afford guns because of the low pay they get as government employees.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Luke's Dad
Aug 19 2010, 01:27 PM
Axtremus
Aug 19 2010, 01:22 PM
Compare urban areas to rural areas -- potential targets are more spread out in rural areas, so fewer potential targets to shoot at within a unit area.

Compare urban areas to urban areas -- compare to Singapore, and this is what the article says "Singapore has the second highest population density in the world (almost 6,814 people per square kilometer, or about 50% more densely populated than Chicago, Illinois) but has the lowest level of gun violence of all the countries in the table above. Its rate of gun violence is 99 times lower than that of the United States which is 200 times less densely populated. The only way for a civilian to own a firearm in Singapore is to acquire an Arm & Explosives license."
Argument doesn't wash, as their "Non-firearm Homicide Rate" is far below just about everybody else's as well. That indicates that Singapore is an aberration. Find out why their over-all homicide rate is so low, then we have something to talk about.
OK, see picture below ...

Posted Image

Red circle groups together countries with "non-firearm homicide rates" in the same ballpark, with the US somewhere in the middle.

Green circle shows that, within this group, the US' "firearm homicide rates" stick out like sore thumb.
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
edit
Edited by Luke's Dad, Aug 19 2010, 01:42 PM.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Now comparing countries with similar "overall homicide rates" ...

Take the US' overall rate of 4.55 per 100,000 as the middle, then group in other countries whose rates are +/- 1.5 of that middle, you get the comparisons shows in the following chart:

Posted Image

Again, the US' "firearm homocide rate" sticks out like a sore thumb in this comparison group.
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Copper
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Shortstop

"United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime"?

That is obviously a fake name.

2000 was ten years ago.

What is this, an email you received from "United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime" asking you to help import some funds from Nigeria?


The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
But not when comparing overall homicide rates. Does it really make it better that somebody was strangled rather than shot?
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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