Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to The New Coffee Room. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
Suicide Prevention in San Fran
Topic Started: Aug 2 2010, 05:36 AM (902 Views)
George K
Member Avatar
Finally
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columns/Suicide-prevention-at-the-Golden-Gate-Bridge-1006404-99723499.html

Hugh Hewitt: Suicide prevention at the Golden Gate Bridge
By: Hugh Hewitt

August 2, 2010

How much should the government spend to deter suicide?

Now, courtesy of the Metropolitan Transportation Commission of San Francisco, we have at least one answer.

According to the environmental paperwork accompanying the federal and state CEQA/NEPA evaluation of the Golden Gate Bridge Suicide Barrier Deterrent System, about two dozen people jump to their deaths from the bridge annually. Twice that number arrive at the bridge intending to jump but are deterred somehow.

Last week, the commission approved spending $5 million in federal money to complete the final engineering and design of a net to catch the jumpers. The project had previously received about $1.8 million in local funding, according to commission documents. The net, which will hang about 20 feet below the bridge, will cost approximately $45 million to build. There is no estimate on the annual maintenance cost of the net.

You will be relieved to know that the $50 million does include "environmental monitoring during construction; the purchase of a large snooper truck for retrieving individuals from the net; and the purchase of a small, sidewalk-sized snooper truck to remove litter and debris from the net."

The environmental documents are a wonder to read, as they spend more paragraphs discussing the color of the net than the wisdom of the expenditure.

"In response to comments received on the Draft EIR/EA and through consultation with the State Historic Preservation Officer (SHPO) and other interested parties, including the Advisory Council on Historic Preservation (ACHP), the Golden Gate National Recreation Area (GGNRA), the National Trust for Historic Preservation, Docomomo, and San Francisco Architectural Heritage, following the close of the public comment period," the documents note, the commission modified "the color of the net material from International Orange to unpainted and uncoated stainless steel. It was determined that the stainless steel net material would have the least effect or minimize effects of the proposed project on cultural resources. The steel horizontal support system for the net would be painted International Orange to match the color of the Bridge."

You will also be relieved to know that "an Avian Impact Study was prepared in April 2009 and revised in November 2009 to further evaluate the potential adverse effects to avian (bird) species." (Dear reader: Please understand I did not think it was necessary to tell you that "avian" meant "bird" but the government document writers did.)

The birds are OK with the net, by the way.

As I am sure many suicide prevention activists are. I have covered the subject of suicide on my radio show and know the terrible toll on family members and friends when someone takes his own life. Intervention programs are numerous and often very effective, especially among teens.

Which brings me back to the price tag of this particular program, which looks like a classic government response to a problem arrived without any real consideration of serious alternatives or fiscal priorities.

What could a $50 million endowment accomplish if the interest income were directed to suicide prevention programs?

There is also a case that other forms of intervention to alleviate human suffering ought to be far ahead of the construction of a bridge net. Take a walk around San Francisco if you want to see a homeless population that liberalism has failed. Drive 10 hours to Tijuana, Mexico, and ask what $50 million could accomplish in that city.

$50 million is a lot of money. This is one city confronting one problem. Just imagine how the government at all levels is spending tax money generally.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Copper
Member Avatar
Shortstop

So once you have the jumper in the net how do you keep them there?

You'll need a second net to catch them when they jump out of the first.

Then you'll need a third net to catch them when they jump out of the second.

And so on until they safely and gently enter the water.

Then you'll need a yacht to pick them up and transport them home where they catch the BART to the Bay Bridge.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Luke's Dad
Member Avatar
Emperor Pengin
Have they considered the costs of retrieving all the people that will jump into the net just for fun?

Also, how about the costs for the lawsuits when jumpers land in the net and break their neck?
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mikhailoh
Member Avatar
If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Let 'em go. This is a boondoggle.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Nobody's Sock
Member Avatar
Fulla-Carp
Mikhailoh
Aug 2 2010, 11:51 AM
Let 'em go. This is a boondoggle.
I've always thought that GG bridge jumpers are the most considerate of all suicidals.
No mess to clean up.

They blend in quickly with the flora and fauna of the ocean.



"Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known."
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ivorythumper
Member Avatar
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Nobody's Sock
Aug 2 2010, 12:19 PM
Mikhailoh
Aug 2 2010, 11:51 AM
Let 'em go. This is a boondoggle.
I've always thought that GG bridge jumpers are the most considerate of all suicidals.
No mess to clean up.

They blend in quickly with the flora and fauna of the ocean.



Shark food.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Horace
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
ivorythumper
Aug 2 2010, 09:11 PM
Nobody's Sock
Aug 2 2010, 12:19 PM
Mikhailoh
Aug 2 2010, 11:51 AM
Let 'em go. This is a boondoggle.
I've always thought that GG bridge jumpers are the most considerate of all suicidals.
No mess to clean up.

They blend in quickly with the flora and fauna of the ocean.



Shark food.
Thus they'll cure cancer in future generations, as soon as we figure out how to use shark cartilage to do that. Almost as good as donating their organs.
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ivorythumper
Member Avatar
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
At the Clifton Bridge in Bristol England, jumpers would occasionally splatter on the road below, halting traffic. The solution was to build a covered underpass down at the lower road level so that jumpers wouldn't splatter on the road below so traffic would not be halted.

Posted Image
The dogma lives loudly within me.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
bachophile
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Posted Image

location of suicides off the golden gate, by location on the bridge.

the vast majority jump from the eastern rail. you would think it should be evenly distributed. although west rail is a bike path and the east one a pedestrian one

the view from there is towards the bay and the city, alcatraz, etc....

the view to the west is of the open pacific.

maybe less people would consider biking to their oblivion? or maybe the view to the pacific is scarier? cold and empty?

who knows...but interesting factoid.
Edited by bachophile, Aug 3 2010, 01:39 AM.
"I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Dewey
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Every year, countless times in this country, we see examples of spending millions of dollars in medical treatment to save the life of a single individual while hardly batting an eyelsh, in the name of mercy and the value of human life. This plan to spend 50 million dollars to save the lives of 24 emotionally disturbed people works out to be less than 2 million per life - and far, far less than that if looking at an assmed net lifespan of, say, ten years before replacement, even factoring in annual maintenance costs.Sounds to me like a government expenditure that's both merciful and cost effective - a lot better use of public money than lots of other projects.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Klaus
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
The right to commit suicide is one of the most fundamental rights of every human.

A government has no business in interfering with people who decide to terminate their life.
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Horace
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Dewey
Aug 3 2010, 05:19 AM
Every year, countless times in this country, we see examples of spending millions of dollars in medical treatment to save the life of a single individual while hardly batting an eyelsh, in the name of mercy and the value of human life. This plan to spend 50 million dollars to save the lives of 24 emotionally disturbed people works out to be less than 2 million per life - and far, far less than that if looking at an assmed net lifespan of, say, ten years before replacement, even factoring in annual maintenance costs.Sounds to me like a government expenditure that's both merciful and cost effective - a lot better use of public money than lots of other projects.
If it's impossible to commit suicide by jumping off the bridge, people will find other ways. This isn't going to save any lives, the purpose is to mitigate the PR hit the golden gate takes as a popular suicide spot.
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Horace
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
What if a super heavy guy jumps and takes the net down with him, which in turn snares a few fishermen off their boats and drags them into the water, and while the whole shebang is sinking to the bottom of the bay, the net manages to grab a few dolphins on the way?

I'm pretty sure that would be "ironic".
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Dewey
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Quote:
 
The right to commit suicide is one of the most fundamental rights of every human.

A government has no business in interfering with people who decide to terminate their life.


That's a valid point on one level. If a person decides to kill himself, he can do so in the privacy of his own home and the government has no right to interfere - or to have any knowledge that he was about to do anything, for that matter.

However, as a culture we have decided that there's more than one level to consider. We have decided that suicide is not a desirable thing, and not something that someone in full control of their mental faculties would do, and that we will take measures to prevent it whenever possible. We spend lots of money each year trying to revive and patch up suicide attempts in emergency departments of hospitals around the country. We spend gobs of money sending out emergency response teams when someone climbs out on a bridge or the cornice of a high-rise. We fund suicide prevention hotlines, and mental health treatment, in countless cities and small towns to deal with suicidal people. If we truly believed that a person's right to end his own life - a right which, for the record, I agree with - is entirely unqualified, then we should put an end to all those efforts immediately. I don't believe that we, as a society, are there - and properly so.

Even Ronald Reagan considered it a proper role of government to be a metaphorical safety net to those in our society who most need help. How much moreso is it an appropriate use of public money to provide a literal safety net for those in our society are in the most dire need of assistance.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Aqua Letifer
Member Avatar
ZOOOOOM!
Horace
Aug 3 2010, 06:40 AM
If it's impossible to commit suicide by jumping off the bridge, people will find other ways. This isn't going to save any lives, the purpose is to mitigate the PR hit the golden gate takes as a popular suicide spot.
Not at all true, and this is a huge misunderstanding about suicidals. Many are not wandering the earth in perpetual torment, constantly looking for a way to end it all. Emotional turmoil's always there, sure, but a lot of the time, the suicidal tendencies come and go in waves. One minute you feel so absolutely awful that you need to do whatever it takes to not feel so sh!tty, and the next, well, you're still feeling pretty freaking bad but not so bad you want to off yourself.

It's ridiculous to think suicidals are beyond help, any more it is to think that the homeless population have always been and will continue to be homeless. If they're kept from dying just once there's a very legitimate chance they won't try it again, if they get the help they need before feeling that low again.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Horace
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Aqua Letifer
Aug 3 2010, 07:05 AM
Horace
Aug 3 2010, 06:40 AM
If it's impossible to commit suicide by jumping off the bridge, people will find other ways. This isn't going to save any lives, the purpose is to mitigate the PR hit the golden gate takes as a popular suicide spot.
Not at all true, and this is a huge misunderstanding about suicidals. Many are not wandering the earth in perpetual torment, constantly looking for a way to end it all. Emotional turmoil's always there, sure, but a lot of the time, the suicidal tendencies come and go in waves. One minute you feel so absolutely awful that you need to do whatever it takes to not feel so sh!tty, and the next, well, you're still feeling pretty freaking bad but not so bad you want to off yourself.

It's ridiculous to think suicidals are beyond help, any more it is to think that the homeless population have always been and will continue to be homeless. If they're kept from dying just once there's a very legitimate chance they won't try it again, if they get the help they need before feeling that low again.
Not sure how you got all that from my post, but no, people who jump off the bridge aren't just there while running errands and decide "it's a good day to die". They plan it, they make the trip and they do it. If the golden gate is not available for it, they'll make other plans.
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
John D'Oh
Member Avatar
MAMIL
Klaus
Aug 3 2010, 06:34 AM
The right to commit suicide is one of the most fundamental rights of every human.

A government has no business in interfering with people who decide to terminate their life.
If someone is suffering from severe depression, then suicide is more a symptom of the illness than anything else. The decision isn't being made on a logical or objective business, but because the depressed person just can't go on.

I would say we have an obligation to try and help these people. Whether building a net under a bridge makes any difference is open to debate, but most people who commit suicide aren't in their right mind. Furthermore, by doing what they do, they will cause enormous pain and suffering to their loved ones.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Klaus
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
John D'Oh
Aug 3 2010, 07:34 AM
Furthermore, by doing what they do, they will cause enormous pain and suffering to their loved ones.
You can also cause pain and suffering to your loved ones by adultery, gambling, and many other activities. Do you want to forbid/prevent those as well?

I for one want to live in a society where people can make their own decisions, and the only valid reason for restricting the free will of a person is self-protection of others . This is, for me, the definition of freedom. Making your own decision means that you also have to bear the consequences of your actions.

Unfortunately there is now a growing trend to restrict freedom for "protecting people from themselves". For instance, via excessive taxes on unhealthy stuff (fat food, alcohol, cigarettes etc.). I strongly oppose this trend. Ultimately it will lead to a totalitarian society.
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Der Fuhrer
Member Avatar
Junior Carp
Und vat ist vrong vit dat?
miss me yet?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
JBryan
Member Avatar
I am the grey one
Hey, no one interfered with you when you did it.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mikhailoh
Member Avatar
If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Horace
Aug 3 2010, 07:34 AM
Aqua Letifer
Aug 3 2010, 07:05 AM
Horace
Aug 3 2010, 06:40 AM
If it's impossible to commit suicide by jumping off the bridge, people will find other ways. This isn't going to save any lives, the purpose is to mitigate the PR hit the golden gate takes as a popular suicide spot.
Not at all true, and this is a huge misunderstanding about suicidals. Many are not wandering the earth in perpetual torment, constantly looking for a way to end it all. Emotional turmoil's always there, sure, but a lot of the time, the suicidal tendencies come and go in waves. One minute you feel so absolutely awful that you need to do whatever it takes to not feel so sh!tty, and the next, well, you're still feeling pretty freaking bad but not so bad you want to off yourself.

It's ridiculous to think suicidals are beyond help, any more it is to think that the homeless population have always been and will continue to be homeless. If they're kept from dying just once there's a very legitimate chance they won't try it again, if they get the help they need before feeling that low again.
Not sure how you got all that from my post, but no, people who jump off the bridge aren't just there while running errands and decide "it's a good day to die". They plan it, they make the trip and they do it. If the golden gate is not available for it, they'll make other plans.
+1
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mikhailoh
Member Avatar
If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
JBryan
Aug 3 2010, 08:12 AM
Hey, no one interfered with you when you did it.
In all fairness he would have had them shot. But I suspect there weren't too many urging him to hang in there.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Der Fuhrer
Member Avatar
Junior Carp
Vell eet vasn't as easyzeichen as vun mighten sthink. Eva vas sprrrrrrawled offer mein zeingledoffer und eet maden harden too pull zee triggerscheit!
miss me yet?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
George K
Member Avatar
Finally
JBryan
Aug 3 2010, 08:12 AM
Hey, no one interfered with you when you did it.
:lol2:

Not for a while, at least.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Aqua Letifer
Member Avatar
ZOOOOOM!
Horace
Aug 3 2010, 07:34 AM
Not sure how you got all that from my post,
Well, not so much your post specifically as the general tone in the thread. That wasn't meant to be a "screw you Horace, I'm calling you out" kind of post.

Quote:
 
but no, people who jump off the bridge aren't just there while running errands and decide "it's a good day to die". They plan it, they make the trip and they do it. If the golden gate is not available for it, they'll make other plans.


But this, is exactly my point. Yes, they plan it, maybe obsess about it. But one failed attempt can mean breaking the cycle for someone like that. If they jump off the Golden Gate and into that net, and their life is saved, it's entirely possible they won't ever try again (if they get the help they need, or something else in their life changes.)
I cite irreconcilable differences.
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · The New Coffee Room · Next Topic »
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1