| Welcome to The New Coffee Room. We hope you enjoy your visit. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Join our community! If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| Fvck you, Mr. President | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 27 2010, 03:09 PM (1,765 Views) | |
| JBryan | Jul 28 2010, 05:41 AM Post #26 |
![]()
I am the grey one
|
If they were Catholic priests there would be no problem with wariness about proximity to young boys. |
|
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
![]() |
|
| Jolly | Jul 28 2010, 06:01 AM Post #27 |
![]()
Geaux Tigers!
|
Please tell me you're commode-hugging, snot-slinging drunk when you wrote that statement. Otherwise, I wouldn't let you within 10 feet of any situation that requires mature and analytical judgement. You want to take a person whose sexual orientation attracts him to males, and then you want to put this person in a leadership position with a group of boys and young men, a position that requires close physical contact and occasional seclusion of the group from the rest of society. What the Hell are you thinking? |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
![]() |
|
| The 89th Key | Jul 28 2010, 07:15 AM Post #28 |
|
LD - I was on 95 south this weekend and passed the BSoA thing, saw all these signs for it. I could tell it was a huge deal, and it's only an hour south for the President, let alone 15 min by chopper. Either way, it's a shame...sorry d00d |
![]() |
|
| Jolly | Jul 28 2010, 09:44 AM Post #29 |
![]()
Geaux Tigers!
|
2nd note: Obama is the honorary president of the Boy Scouts of America. Makes this carp even worse... |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
![]() |
|
| Kincaid | Jul 28 2010, 10:45 AM Post #30 |
|
HOLY CARP!!!
|
I think you mischaracterized what I was getting at - I'm not defending Obama at all. I was just wondering if this was simply an "I got more important things to do" moment or one that was politically motivated by fear of upsetting his base. Obama should have gone, because breaking a promise when it can easily be kept is bad form. Says a lot about Obama, IMO. I do actually agree with you Ax on this issue - if he had attended, he should go ahead and speak his mind on the issues affecting the Scouts. If he wants to come out and support gays as leaders for the scouts, let him make his case. 1. I agree that male gays and pedophiles should not be involved in scouting. I've seen enough regarding how that temptation works out from the mayor of the town I work in. 2. If the scouts want to kick out kids that won't say some pledge that they believe in God, so be it - it should be their right as a public organization. I just think it is dumb. |
| Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006. | |
![]() |
|
| Jolly | Jul 28 2010, 10:50 AM Post #31 |
![]()
Geaux Tigers!
|
I'm not exactly sure what status the Scouts hold. I know they are Congressionally chartered, same as the Red Cross, but I think they are still a private organization. As such, they can define parameters for inclusion, such as a belief in God. My understanding is that the Scouts are pretty lenient on the interpretation of God, it can range from whatever to whatever, as long as one believes in a higher power of some kind. |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
![]() |
|
| JBryan | Jul 28 2010, 10:53 AM Post #32 |
![]()
I am the grey one
|
The I'll bet he would show up for the |
|
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
![]() |
|
| John D'Oh | Jul 28 2010, 11:07 AM Post #33 |
|
MAMIL
|
The American scouts ripped off the idea from Robert Baden-Powell - a Hitler sympathiser and alleged homosexual. Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course. I don't know what it's like over here - we used to march up and down a lot singing the Horst Wessel song, but that might have just been a dodgy scoutmaster. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
![]() |
|
| JBryan | Jul 28 2010, 11:11 AM Post #34 |
![]()
I am the grey one
|
The arm bands were probably a dead give away. |
|
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
![]() |
|
| Kincaid | Jul 28 2010, 11:11 AM Post #35 |
|
HOLY CARP!!!
|
I guess I meant "private", though to be honest I don't know the difference between "public" and "gov't". If I had said the scouts were a "non-gov't" organization it would have been exactly what I meant. As for any Obama rallies, I bet we'd get some great film footage of him, silouhetted against the sky, perhaps even with some ethereal bright light behind his head. |
| Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006. | |
![]() |
|
| John D'Oh | Jul 28 2010, 11:37 AM Post #36 |
|
MAMIL
|
![]() Dib dib dib! |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
![]() |
|
| Kincaid | Jul 28 2010, 12:29 PM Post #37 |
|
HOLY CARP!!!
|
"Behold, here is my beloved son, in whom I am well pleased..." |
| Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006. | |
![]() |
|
| Mikhailoh | Jul 28 2010, 12:31 PM Post #38 |
|
If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
|
FIFY |
|
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
![]() |
|
| John D'Oh | Jul 28 2010, 02:54 PM Post #39 |
|
MAMIL
|
I'm pretty sure the number of internet threads entitled 'Fvck you, Mr. Chancellor' in Hitler's Germany was very low. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
![]() |
|
| Dewey | Jul 28 2010, 06:59 PM Post #40 |
![]()
HOLY CARP!!!
|
Welching out on a year-long promise for these reasons is bottom-of-the-barrel low. Obama is simply showing that he doesn't have the character or integrity of most of the attendees. He didn't even get past the first sentence of the Boy Scout Law: "A scout is trustworthy." I don't agree with their stance on gay scouts or scoutmasters. I think it's as wrong as if someone were to suggest that teenaged girls should only have straight female or gay male school teachers, or that teenaged boys should only have straight male or lesbian female teachers. If I were the President, if I disagreed with their stance on the matter so strongly that I felt I shouldn't even attend the event, I'd have had the integrity to not accept the invitation to begin with. Personally, if I were the President, I'd have felt honored to have received the invitation and I'd have gladly spoken at the event. In the spirit of forthrightness, I'd probably make some mention about our difference on the issue, and my wish that their position would change - but the vast majority of my speech would talk about all the real positive aspects of scouting, that have benefited millions of kids, and by extension, our society as a whole. In my opinion, that would have been an honorable way to handle the invitation. For that matter, even declining the invitation would still have been honorable. But to say you'd speak, and to do so for a year in advance, and then cancel at the last minute for a nonessential alternative appearance - that's just low class and tacky. |
|
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
![]() |
|
| Mikhailoh | Jul 29 2010, 03:53 AM Post #41 |
|
If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
|
School teachers do not take kids out on camping trips in small groups. Your analogy does not hold. |
|
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
![]() |
|
| Dewey | Jul 29 2010, 04:28 AM Post #42 |
![]()
HOLY CARP!!!
|
School teachers are in all kinds of settings in which sexual abuse can occur, Mik. I don't buy discriminating against people in a manner that makes them guilty of being a sexual deviant until proven innocent. |
|
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
![]() |
|
| John D'Oh | Jul 29 2010, 04:37 AM Post #43 |
|
MAMIL
|
|
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
![]() |
|
| Mikhailoh | Jul 29 2010, 05:33 AM Post #44 |
|
If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
|
It is not discrimination when I apply it equally to heterosexuals. Young people's safety comes before their 'right' to be in that position. |
|
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
![]() |
|
| Jolly | Jul 29 2010, 05:39 AM Post #45 |
![]()
Geaux Tigers!
|
Amen. You don't let a dog sleep in the chicken coop. Some dogs have no interest in killing chickens. Some dogs, even though they might have a natural tendency to like to kill chickens, will refrain from such behavior. OTOH, some dogs would kill every chicken they can corner. It's a lot easier not to put the dog there in the first place. |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
![]() |
|
| John D'Oh | Jul 29 2010, 05:59 AM Post #46 |
|
MAMIL
|
And yet suspected wife beaters and aggressive drunks are allowed to buy handguns. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
![]() |
|
| Dewey | Jul 29 2010, 06:22 AM Post #47 |
![]()
HOLY CARP!!!
|
Mik, we've known each other way too long for that kind of comment. You obviously know that I value children's safety extremely highly. You obviously know, from past comments of mine, that the professional, legal, and denominational standards that I'm required to abide by are extremely stringent regarding any kind of misconduct, sexual or otherwise, with regard to children - and that, despite others' comments that a level of child protection that high could harm the reputation of the alleged abuser if subsequently found to be innocent, that I supported those policies in order to protect the children. You probably remember that not too long ago, I pointed out that in my own denominational requirements, I have an obligation to call in the civil authorities any time I have evidence, or even suspicion, of child abuse, by a parishioner, and additional requirements if the person is clergy or other church worker. You probably know that I have to undergo background checks in order to be allowed to do my job - and so does every Sunday School teacher, or youth group leader, or Vacation Bible School helper, or person who drives a carload of kids to an event, and that I support that. So if you want to discuss that topic, let's start it from the point of mutual respect and friendship that we've established over a long time. To your point: It would indeed be discrimination if it were applied equally to heterosexuals, which was exactly my point. The fact that we *don't* consider it appropriate to do so, allowing only straight women or gay men to teach girls; or straight men and lesbian women to teach boys - or to serve as leaders of social or extracurricular groups of any kind - is evidence that we see the idea doesn't really pass the logic test. As just one example, we don't demand to know the sexual preference of junior and senior high phys ed teachers, and prevent them from teaching, and being in the locker room with kids who are the same gender that they're physically attracted to as adults. To do so would assume that everyone is a child molester until proven innocent - and we don't accept that rationale; much like we correctly decried the college women's group who put up posters of random male college students calling them potential rapists, in an attempt to raise consciousness of women's campus safety. The fact is that straight male scout leaders aren't supposed to be in situations where any sort of inappropriate behavior could happen or even be alleged - and any adult leader of children - straight, gay, or whatever - is out of their mind if they put themselves in such a situation. Case in point; an actual scenario posed to me in my own boundary training: I'm driving down the road alone and I see a high school boy who's a member of my congregation, a good kid from a good family, I've known them for years, etc. - standing along the side of the road, next to his broken down car, and he's hitching a ride. I pull over and he tells me he couldn't even call for help or a ride, because he forgot his cell phone that morning. Question: Do I give him a ride home? Answer: Not in a million years, no matter how much I might want to help him that way. Whether the kid is, unknown to me, a psycho who later claims I tried to fondle him in the car, or whether someone sees me in the car alone with this kid and starts rumors that there's something inappropriate going on, or whatever, I do not allow myself to be put in that situation. So what am I supposed to do? First, tell him that he shouldn't be hitchhiking; it's really unsafe. Second, offer him the use of my cell phone to call for help or a ride. Third, wait with him along the roadside until help arrives. If the BSA has a policy of appropriate interaction among its leaders and its scouts, there shouldn't be any cause for alarm that a scout is at any higher risk of being treated inappropriately by a gay scout leader than by a straight one. It really is that simple. And if the Scouts' position is that their leaders do place themselves in situations where their sexual preference could pose some problem or diminish the children's safety, then the organization needs to adjust their policies for appropriate behavior from their leaders regardless. The BSA is a good organization. I was a scout (Cub Scouts and Webelos. Believe it or not, I didn't go through with my Boy Scout orientation because as part of my induction, I was supposed to say that the Boy Scout symbol was a "fleur de lis"; and I thought it was too sissified and embarrasing to say the word, so I quit), and I have great memories from those days. I think they're wrong on the issue of gay leaders. While I agree with their right to discriminate in that manner as a private organization, I reserve the right to call it discrimination, and wrong, nonetheless. But I don't allow that one disagreement to make me fail to recognize the great asset to kids and our country that scouting has been, and hopefully will continue to be. |
|
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
![]() |
|
| Mikhailoh | Jul 29 2010, 06:51 AM Post #48 |
|
If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
|
Sorry, Dewey. I did not mean to insult you. I'll edit that post. But your argument still does not stand up. We don't allow women to be gym teachers for boys nor men for girls. The only difference here is whether sexual preference is known or not. While I agree that molestation can take place many places, a scout leader has a whole lot more opportunities than a teacher. Any situation where only one adult is normally present is far, far different than a school environment where many are present. |
|
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
![]() |
|
| Copper | Jul 29 2010, 06:54 AM Post #49 |
|
Shortstop
|
First of all that isn't simple. Sit in the room when the scout leaders get together and talk about this and see if it is simple. Maybe physical safety isn't the only issue. Maybe the scouts don't want to teach their children about alternative sexual preference. Why should they be forced to? As a group gays are a pretty in-your-face bunch. I'm sure many of us remember the jolly green giant from the NY parade a few weeks ago. Why should the scouts be forced to deal with this? |
|
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
![]() |
|
| Jolly | Jul 29 2010, 06:56 AM Post #50 |
![]()
Geaux Tigers!
|
If you have been arrested for domestic violence, you may not purchas a gun in the United States. Notice I said arrested, not convicted. You can thank Clinton for that usurpation of rights. |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
![]() |
|
|
|
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · The New Coffee Room · Next Topic » |











5:02 PM Jul 10