Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to The New Coffee Room. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
Obamacare pays for abortions
Topic Started: Jul 14 2010, 10:44 AM (907 Views)
George K
Member Avatar
Finally
jon-nyc
Jul 14 2010, 01:22 PM
Add colic to that list.
I didn't know they could diagnose that in utero. :lol2:
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
kathyk
Member Avatar
Pisa-Carp
George K
Jul 14 2010, 12:40 PM
Ah... so you have no problem with the Obama administration's duplicity with regard to the federal funding of abortion issue and how it was presented to Bart Stupak and the other 11 so-called "Blue Dogs" back in March.

"You fvcked up. You trusted us."
I don't see how he could have done that. The legislation is what it is. It had Stupid's required anti-choice provision. Obama can't have changed that.

It sounds to me that what he did do is find away around it to allow the state of PA to use the money as it sees fit. States' rights is something people on the right are pretty adament about. I'd say it's the constitution working the way it's supposed to.

I love loopholes when they to get around opressive laws. I use them all the time in my work. :bluewink:
Edited by kathyk, Jul 14 2010, 01:35 PM.
Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ivorythumper
Member Avatar
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Axtremus
Jul 14 2010, 01:09 PM
The is no provision that says you cannot buy lobster using food stamps, or that you cannot buy big screen TV or Bahama tour/cruises using Social Security pay out. Heck, you can buy lobster and big screen TV and book Bahama cruises and pay for abortion using federally sponsored (though state administered) unemployment benefit money. The federally sponsored COBRA subsidies do not exclude any healthcare insurance plan that also covers abortion.

If you want to argue that any of the above should change, go ahead.
That is way too limited and cumbersome to have to apply for Food Stamps or wait for Social Security. If you are handing out private goods from the public coffers, I want my lobster and big screen TVs sent to me directly and immediately. Anything else is just fraught with a potential violation of my Constitutional rights to equal access to all public goods.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
George K
Member Avatar
Finally
kathyk
Jul 14 2010, 01:33 PM
It had Stupid's required anti-choice provision.
Nothing like raising the level of discourse.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
KlavierBauer
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Ax: I was commenting directly on your mention of Social Security benefits. Some of us are fortunate enough to qualify for this prior to 62, but you need to suffer from ESRD first - sorry.
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Axtremus
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Quote:
 
That is way too limited and cumbersome to have to apply for Food Stamps or wait for Social Security. ...
And you know it's not any more "limited and cumbersome" to get into that Pennsylvania high-risk insurance pool and get abortion service how?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
KlavierBauer
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Ax: Getting into the high-risk pool with the new plan won't be all that difficult for a healthy percentage of the population. Thankfully we won't see any of that truly implemented for a couple of years yet.
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
kathyk
Member Avatar
Pisa-Carp
George K
Jul 14 2010, 01:37 PM
kathyk
Jul 14 2010, 01:33 PM
It had Stupid's required anti-choice provision.
Nothing like raising the level of discourse.
Ha! You should talk, Mr. drag-Obama-down-with-ever- aberration-of-his-name-and-image-you-can-find!
Edited by kathyk, Jul 14 2010, 01:45 PM.
Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Axtremus
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
KlavierBauer
Jul 14 2010, 01:41 PM
Ax: I was commenting directly on your mention of Social Security benefits. Some of us are fortunate enough to qualify for this prior to 62, but you need to suffer from ESRD first - sorry.
Yes, I figured you're stuck on that Social Security example. I was just telling you that I have also cited examples that have no age limit.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
George K
Member Avatar
Finally
kathyk
Jul 14 2010, 01:44 PM
George K
Jul 14 2010, 01:37 PM
kathyk
Jul 14 2010, 01:33 PM
It had Stupid's required anti-choice provision.
Nothing like raising the level of discourse.
Ha! You should talk, Mr. drag-Obama-down-with-ever- aberration-of-his-name-and-image-you-can-find!
When did I make fun of Obama's name, appearance or heritage? I've criticized his policies, his vision and his competence. I've not called him "stupid", as far as I recall.

Oh, and the photos I've used for avatars? They're White House photos. If those are offensive to you, then, well....
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Copper
Member Avatar
Shortstop
kathyk
Jul 14 2010, 01:44 PM
George K
Jul 14 2010, 01:37 PM
kathyk
Jul 14 2010, 01:33 PM
It had Stupid's required anti-choice provision.
Nothing like raising the level of discourse.
Ha! You should talk, Mr. drag-Obama-down-with-ever- aberration-of-his-name-and-image-you-can-find!

You mean like this?

No, I don't see GK doing this. It's just not him.


Posted ImagePosted Image

Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Jolly
Member Avatar
Geaux Tigers!
Axtremus
Jul 14 2010, 12:51 PM
KB, you misunderstood. I am for federally funded elective abortions, and federally funded artificial contraceptives, and federally funded elective sterilization procedures.

Get it?
Tell ya what I'll do...I'm about as pro-life as anybody here...since you want federally funded abortions, I'll agree to that in the first trimester...as long as you will allow mandated federally funded sterilization after the first child delivered to any woman who receives a federally funded delivery.

Deal?
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Axtremus
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
KlavierBauer
Jul 14 2010, 01:44 PM
Ax: Getting into the high-risk pool with the new plan won't be all that difficult for a healthy percentage of the population.
How do you know that?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Jolly
Member Avatar
Geaux Tigers!
Quote:
 
I love loopholes when they to get around laws. I use them all the time in my work.


Of you, I would expect no less...
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
KlavierBauer
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
I'm not hung up on the example, I'm simply explaining why it's a bad one (example).

As for COBRA: it's not a great example either, as it's not a long term solution for anyone. As I'm sure you know it applies to *workers* who have lost benefits (i.e., not a welfare program and probably therefore also not a great example). Not to mention, employers pay the premiums for COBRA, so the argument can be made that the person receiving COBRA has already at least in part pre-paid for the service. Not a great example of social welfare.
The only viable example is Unemployment - oh wait - nope, that again is something the employer pays for, and so the employee has also helped pay for this benefit. It also is only available to *workers* who have lost their jobs, and then only for a short period of time, so it also isn't a valid example of a welfare program already in place to aid in purchasing big screen TV's and cruises.

Next
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
KlavierBauer
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Axtremus
 
How do you know that?

Ax: Because the roll out for the new healthcare system is already planned out, and the high-risk pool is already well defined, and its implementation dates known. Also known is how people will be able to qualify for this group.
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Axtremus
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Jolly
Jul 14 2010, 01:55 PM
Axtremus
Jul 14 2010, 12:51 PM
KB, you misunderstood. I am for federally funded elective abortions, and federally funded artificial contraceptives, and federally funded elective sterilization procedures.

Get it?
Tell ya what I'll do...I'm about as pro-life as anybody here...since you want federally funded abortions, I'll agree to that in the first trimester...as long as you will allow mandated federally funded sterilization after the first child delivered to any woman who receives a federally funded delivery.

Deal?
No deal.

I place no restriction on "elective abortion," and I place no condition on "elective sterilization."

I am opposed to "mandated sterilization" unless it is a reversible procedure that is overseen by the courts and social services in certain restricted cases (e.g., mentally ill patients who are ineligible to make medical decision themselves and have other legal guardians to make that decisions for them).
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
jon-nyc
Member Avatar
Cheers
George K
Jul 14 2010, 01:37 PM
Nothing like raising the level of discourse.
Missed your similar comment on Mik's 'dumb bastard in the whitehouse' remark.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
George K
Member Avatar
Finally
jon-nyc
Jul 14 2010, 02:08 PM
George K
Jul 14 2010, 01:37 PM
Nothing like raising the level of discourse.
Missed your similar comment on Mik's 'dumb bastard in the whitehouse' remark.
Fair 'nuff. But it falls under the "Look he's doing it too" category. A lawyer told me once that's not a valid argument. He may or not be right on that account. :bluewink:
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Axtremus
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
KlavierBauer
Jul 14 2010, 01:59 PM
I'm not hung up on the example, I'm simply explaining why it's a bad one (example).

As for COBRA: it's not a great example either, as it's not a long term solution for anyone. As I'm sure you know it applies to *workers* who have lost benefits (i.e., not a welfare program and probably therefore also not a great example). Not to mention, employers pay the premiums for COBRA, so the argument can be made that the person receiving COBRA has already at least in part pre-paid for the service. Not a great example of social welfare.
The only viable example is Unemployment - oh wait - nope, that again is something the employer pays for, and so the employee has also helped pay for this benefit. It also is only available to *workers* who have lost their jobs, and then only for a short period of time, so it also isn't a valid example of a welfare program already in place to aid in purchasing big screen TV's and cruises.

Next
Kindly do a bit more research on extended unemployment benefits and government subsidized COBRA benefits before you brush off those examples. Federal money was involved in both examples in recent times, and may be involved again soon depending on Congressional action.

If your argument is that those examples are bad because "employers/employees" paid for some of it (again, employers/employees do not pay for all of them because, as emphasized above, the federal government have subsidized them of late), then be aware that that's not all that different from the high-risk pool because the individuals in the high-risk pool have to pay something into the pool too.

(And, no, employers were never required pay premiums for COBRA. Very, very few employers choose to do so.)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
KlavierBauer
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Axtremus
 
Federal money was involved in both examples in recent times, and may be involved again soon depending on Congressional action.

I never said federal money wasn't involved - I simply stated that they hardly constitute "welfare" programs like what you're comparing them to, because they are at least in part paid for by the private sector.

Speaking of doing your research, thanks to the "American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009" employees who lost their job prior to last month (June 2010) are only required to pay 35% of their COBRA premium, while the employer is required to pay the remaining 65% (some of which they can make up for in tax credits of course).
So employers *do* pay for COBRA, not to mention it is only for 18 months, so it's hardly an example comparable to the new healthcare system.
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
jon-nyc
Member Avatar
Cheers
George K
Jul 14 2010, 02:12 PM
But it falls under the "Look he's doing it too" category.
God knows you're never guilty of that. :lol:
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Axtremus
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
KlavierBauer
Jul 14 2010, 02:21 PM
Speaking of doing your research, thanks to the "American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009" employees who lost their job prior to last month (June 2010) are only required to pay 35% of their COBRA premium, while the employer is required to pay the remaining 65% (some of which they can make up for in tax credits of course).
So employers *do* pay for COBRA, not to mention it is only for 18 months, so it's hardly an example comparable to the new healthcare system.
Yes, the coverage provider (which, in some cases, may be the ex-employers) get the money back as tax credit. So as I've been saying since I cited that example, it's federally subsidized.

Yes, the federally subsidized COBRA and extended unemployment benefits are "temporary," but so are the "high-risk pools." Those high-risk pools will go away when guaranteed-issue and other core provisions of the healthcare reform act go into effect in 2014.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
JBryan
Member Avatar
I am the grey one
Ax is slicing the baloney so thin you can't even pick it up.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
KlavierBauer
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
So whether it's the employer or employee who pays the lion's share really doesn't matter - the *fact* is that while there may be some federal subsidy it isn't wholly subsidized by the government which much of the new healthcare system will be (especially within the population segment receiving the majority of those state funded abortions). Furthermore, we're talking about a benefit for *employees* - COBRA is extended coverage, lengthening an employees coverage as they seek a new job. In other words, that person has been paying into the shared-risk pool for some time - yet another reason why COBRA is hardly analogous to the new healthcare system paying for abortions. In other words - to receive a state funded abortion via COBRA, I would already need to be covered by a program which gives me that procedure as an option, and many many plans simply don't cover this except for emergencies - which as I stated previously is already covered. *edit - I would also need to be a woman* :)
Edited by KlavierBauer, Jul 14 2010, 02:50 PM.
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Create your own social network with a free forum.
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · The New Coffee Room · Next Topic »
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2