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Obamacare pays for abortions
Topic Started: Jul 14 2010, 10:44 AM (906 Views)
George K
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Finally
Disclaimer: I am not anti-abortion on all issues.

I am anti-abortion when I have to pay for it:

http://lifenews.com/nat6531.html
Quote:
 
The Obama Administration will give Pennsylvania $160 million to set up a new "high-risk" insurance program under a provision of the federal health care legislation enacted in March.

It has quietly approved a plan submitted by an appointee of pro-abortion Governor Edward Rendell under which the new program will cover any abortion that is legal in Pennsylvania.

The high-risk pool program is one of the new programs created by the sweeping health care legislation, Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, President Obama signed into law on March 23. The law authorizes $5 billion in federal funds for the program, which will cover as many as 400,000 people when it is implemented nationwide.

"The Obama Administration will give Pennsylvania $160 million in federal tax funds, which we've discovered will pay for insurance plans that cover any legal abortion," said Douglas Johnson, legislative director for the National Right to Life Committee.

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- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Good!

Hey George, if you don't pay for legal abortions, you'll pay for the increased social services cost to take care of more unwanted children and/or increased medical services cost to deal with botched back-alley abortion attempts. It's cheaper to just pay for the legal, regulated sort of abortions performed by licensed medical professionals.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
God, you are sad.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Axtremus
Jul 14 2010, 10:49 AM
Good!

Hey George, if you don't pay for legal abortions, you'll pay for the increased social services cost to take care of more unwanted children and/or increased medical services cost to deal with botched back-alley abortion attempts. It's cheaper to just pay for the legal, regulated sort of abortions performed by licensed medical professionals.
This may come as a shock to you but some people would actually want that. You may have read that some people have a moral issue with abortions but have no problem with social services.

And I'd have to ask around but my hallucination is that some people don't break down the abortion issue and the value of human life into what's more financially convenient.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
I don't really mind the idea of state-funded abortions any more than any other kind of abortions, however I do mind that they're trying to slip this kind of thing through the back door without telling anyone.

With something this controversial, they have a duty to inform people of what they're doing, IMO.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Mark
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HOLY CARP!!!
Seriously sad.
___.___
(_]===*
o 0
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Aqua Letifer
Jul 14 2010, 10:53 AM
Axtremus
Jul 14 2010, 10:49 AM
Good!

Hey George, if you don't pay for legal abortions, you'll pay for the increased social services cost to take care of more unwanted children and/or increased medical services cost to deal with botched back-alley abortion attempts. It's cheaper to just pay for the legal, regulated sort of abortions performed by licensed medical professionals.
This may come as a shock to you but some people would actually want that. You may have read that some people have a moral issue with abortions but have no problem with social services.

And I'd have to ask around but my hallucination is that some people don't break down the abortion issue and the value of human life into what's more financially convenient.
To the extent that I have no more moral qualm with paying for abortion than with paying for other social services, I have no problem picking the more cost-effective option.

George already said that he's not anti-abortion. So unless George has more qualms with paying for abortion than with paying for other social services, I think my response to him is quite appropriate.
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Axtremus
Jul 14 2010, 10:58 AM
To the extent that I have no more moral qualm with paying for abortion than with paying for other social services, I have no problem picking the more cost-effective option.

George already said that he's not anti-abortion. So unless George has more qualms with paying for abortion than with paying for other social services, I think my response to him is quite appropriate.
I already know you're not against abortions. And to be fair, George hasn't detailed what he thinks of abortion so saying he's "not anti-abortion" is probably too much of a generalization.

I'm just suggesting that when someone talks about the benefits of government-funded abortion like they would a baked ham double coupon at Shopper's, he's not going to be taken seriously by everybody.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Aqua
 
... he's not going to be taken seriously by everybody.
That's alright. Nobody will ever be taken seriously by everybody anyway, no matter what he talks about.
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George K
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Finally
Axtremus
Jul 14 2010, 10:58 AM
George already said that he's not anti-abortion.
Don't misquote me, Ax.
Quote:
 
Disclaimer: I am not anti-abortion on all issues.

And, don't ask me what those issues are, either. The point is that the Democrats were handed a stinking pile of horse dung and were told that it's really perfume. Stupak was lied to, and as D'Oh astutely observes, the "most transparent administration" ever, has to sneak in the Director of Medical Services in a recess appointment this legislation.

What was that term again?

Oh, yeah: "You lie."
Edited by George K, Jul 14 2010, 11:35 AM.
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"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
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Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
George K
Jul 14 2010, 11:05 AM
"most transparent administration"
They are fairly transparent. I can clearly see how they're full of sh!t.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Copper
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Shortstop
Axtremus
Jul 14 2010, 10:49 AM
Good!

Hey George, if you don't pay for legal abortions, you'll pay for the increased social services cost to take care of more unwanted children and/or increased medical services cost to deal with botched back-alley abortion attempts. It's cheaper to just pay for the legal, regulated sort of abortions performed by licensed medical professionals.

I think your threat of charging us for social services is kind of a cheap shot.

Where are you going to find people to carry out this threat for you?

Won't you feel silly if these social services consumers people start acting in a responsible manner.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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George K
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Finally
Is abortion today "safe, legal, and (ahem) rare?" Most will say at least two of those criteria are met.

And they're met without funding.

Continuing that lack of federal funding should change nothing.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Ah ... but the increase of federal funding should make it "safer," make it more "legal" (remove cost-induced access barrier to legal, regulated abortion services). Add federal funding to artificial contraceptives, sex education, and elective sterilization services and you'll make abortions "rarer" too.
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George K
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Finally
Ah... so you have no problem with the Obama administration's duplicity with regard to the federal funding of abortion issue and how it was presented to Bart Stupak and the other 11 so-called "Blue Dogs" back in March.

"You fvcked up. You trusted us."
Edited by George K, Jul 14 2010, 12:42 PM.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
Ax: So you'd be in favor of making elective abortion 100% illegal and make all abortions where the mother's life is in imminent danger state funded, and the safest they can be?
I'd be open to that line of thinking.
I'm not open to the "it's the most cost effective" route however, because simply exterminating the entire human race over time via state sponsored sterility is the most "cost effective" route to managed social expenditures. Are you in favor of the most cost effective route for capital punishment in states where it is legal?
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
KB, you misunderstood. I am for federally funded elective abortions, and federally funded artificial contraceptives, and federally funded elective sterilization procedures.

Get it?
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
Yeah - I got it. I was just looking for that inconsistency. So it's not really about the most cost effective option to manage social care and services - it's about the availability of elective abortion services.
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Axtremus
Jul 14 2010, 12:51 PM
KB, you misunderstood. I am for federally funded elective abortions, and federally funded artificial contraceptives, and federally funded elective sterilization procedures.

Get it?
And I am for federally funded lobster dinners and vacations in the Bahamas and big screen TVs. If you are going to supply private goods out of the public treasury, why limit it to such politically divisive things?
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
The is no provision that says you cannot buy lobster using food stamps, or that you cannot buy big screen TV or Bahama tour/cruises using Social Security pay out. Heck, you can buy lobster and big screen TV and book Bahama cruises and pay for abortion using federally sponsored (though state administered) unemployment benefit money. The federally sponsored COBRA subsidies do not exclude any healthcare insurance plan that also covers abortion.

If you want to argue that any of the above should change, go ahead.
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
In the case of emergent, necessary abortions, the State already pays for those who require this - as they do for all emergent care.
Are you also limiting abortions to those 62 and over as you are with the big-screen TV and Bahamas cruise payout? I can sign on for that.
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
KlavierBauer
Jul 14 2010, 01:12 PM
Are you also limiting abortions to those 62 and over as you are with the big-screen TV and Bahamas cruise payout? I can sign on for that.
Not at all. See the federally subsidized unemployment benefit and COBRA examples cited above. There is no age limit to either program.
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
Most people in state high risk pools have chronic conditions of some sort, and are generally older. I'm not sure how many abortions PA's high risk plan will actually pay for.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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George K
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Finally
jon-nyc
Jul 14 2010, 01:16 PM
I'm not sure how many abortions PA's high risk plan will actually pay for.
Good point. My reading is that it does not pay for "elective" abortions. Of course, that begs the question of what constitutes an "emergency."

Trisomy 21? Congenital heart defects? Wrong gender?
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
Add colic to that list.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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