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Go Ted......
Topic Started: Jul 13 2010, 08:52 AM (791 Views)
Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Ted Nugent on why guns are good for America:





Why guns are good for America


In a world increasingly hellbent on abandoning logic and the ensuing escalation of Obama madness, it is clearly time for the maximum celebration of the good old, always reliable Uncle Ted crowbar of logic.

I am ThumpMaster, hear me roar.

In the otherwise universally recognized perfection of the American experiment in self-government, where evil monsters like Che Guevara and Mao Zedong are routinely worshipped by the very imbeciles that these historical murderers would have slaughtered unhesitatingly, to a community-organizer-in-chief whose terminal rookie agenda is maniacally to spend our way out of debt and drop charges against clear and present criminal New Black Panther thugs threatening voters in Philadelphia, to black-robed idiots claiming Americans have no right to self-defense, where pimps, whores and welfare brats party hearty with the mindless fantasy that Fedzilla will wipe their butts eternally, ad nauseam - I am compelled to increase my crowbar swinging to new heights every day. I am the steel ballerina. Let's dance.

It is not good enough simply to spotlight rooster: Ultimately, all caring people must always rally to the requisite stomping party. For us varmint hunters, these are truly the good old days of a target-rich environment with no bag limit. Let the stomping increase to a furious frenzy and cacophony of good over evil. May America create the splat heard round the world. My steel-toed boots are giddy with anticipatory delight. Stomp on into a voting booth near you.

Since the 1960s LSD-inspired goofiness of peace and love, I have always been convinced that the gun-control issue has been the tip of the culture-war spear. Why the peaceniks still deny the truth that more guns equal less crime, in spite of the tsunami of global evidence from every imaginable source, is one of mankind's greatest mysteries.

From the Nazi gun-banner's dream of herding 6 million defenseless Jews onto the death trains to the no-guns-or-gunpowder-allowed IRA bombings and shoot-'em-ups in Bono's Ireland to Idi Amin's unstoppable slaughter of unarmed victims in Uganda, Chicago Mayor Richard M. Daley still fails to grasp the self-evident truth that gun bans and preposterous buyback programs are just the stuff of gangbangers' dreams. Who doesn't get this stuff? Liberal, dopey denial cultists, that's who.

The blindly obedient Canadian radio host I recently "debated" on his show once again completely failed to grasp how Canadians are trusted with blowtorches, chain saws, hatchets, wood chippers, bulldozers, coping saws, welders, front loaders, razor-sharp grain sickles and large diesel trucks, but not with wonderfully designed, perfectly safe and utilitarian handguns.

He resisted with every sheeplike fiber of his being the fact that the drug wars and biker wars in Toronto were not obeying the draconian, ultralaughable C68 gun law in his fine country. What the insane C68 has accomplished so far has been to waste approximately $6 billion in tax dollars and inefficiently register a bunch of farmers' goose guns. Phenomenally stupid.

More phenomenally stupid is the whole world's denial of the plethora of statistics proven in John Lott's book "More Guns, Less Crime," in which the desirable condition of safer streets and communities with drastically reduced violent crime is accomplished most readily where more citizens not only have access to firearms but actually carry them daily on their persons.

From the ultrasafe streets of Switzerland, where every household has a real, honest-to-God full-auto-assault rifle and ammo on hand (and a proud national respect for their fellow citizens, mind you) to the multitude of jurisdictions across America where more concealed weapons per capita are issued, violent crime not only plummets, but personal-assault crimes such as rape, carjacking and armed robbery actually disappear in many instances.

Could I please hear from someone who actually prefers Mr. Daley's gun-ban slaughter zones to the safe streets of armed America? You've got to be kidding me.

The line drawn in the American sand is very unfortunate, at times rather heartbreaking, but as long as there are people who insist on demanding policies that guarantee the continued slaughter of innocent lives, those of us who cherish life, liberty and the safe pursuit of happiness and good over paroled evil must not only stand strong and unmovable on our side of the self-defense line but also fight diligently either to educate the soulless and brain-dead among us or to eliminate them from the debate at the voting booth.

Some things, like life, are indeed sacred, and where gun control freaks have their way, innocent lives will always pay the ultimate price. Gun-free zones are a murderer's playgrounds. People who value life must do all we can to ban gun-free zones. Join the NRA.
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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John D'Oh
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Quote:
 
no-guns-or-gunpowder-allowed IRA bombings and shoot-'em-ups in Bono's Ireland


Firstly, Bono is from Dublin, in Eire. The vast majority of IRA bombings occurred in Northern Ireland, a completely different country. Presumably Teddy's not talking about the Irish civil war, or Irish War of Independence here. I know Bono's old, but he's not that old.

Secondly, during the height of the terrorist campaign the streets of Northern Ireland were constantly patrolled by heavily armed police and British soldiers.

Only someobody completely ignorant of some fairly significant facts would try and equate the troubles in Northern Ireland with gun control in 'Bono's Ireland'. It's like blaming 9-11 on opponents of the NRA in Canada.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Phlebas
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John D'Oh
Jul 13 2010, 09:43 AM
Quote:
 
no-guns-or-gunpowder-allowed IRA bombings and shoot-'em-ups in Bono's Ireland


Firstly, Bono is from Dublin, in Eire. The majority of IRA bombings occurred in Northern Ireland, a completely different country.

Secondly, during the height of the terrorist campaign the streets of Northern Ireland were constantly patrolled by heavily armed police and British soldiers.

Only someobody completely ignorant of some fairly significant facts would try and equate the troubles in Northern Ireland with a lack of gun control in 'Bono's Ireland'. It's like blaming 9-11 on opponents of the NRA in Canada.
Yeah. That was pretty silly, but I think the point was the people with "guns" were the criminals (provos) and the government. Regular citizens couldn't legally own guns. Not sure it that was really true, though. Also, I'm not sure how many citizens would have tried to take out either the IRA or the soldiers if they could have owned guns.
Random FML: Today, I was fired by my boss in front of my coworkers. It would have been nice if I could have left the building before they started celebrating. FML

The founding of the bulk of the world's nation states post 1914 is based on self-defined nationalisms. The bulk of those national movements involve territory that was ethnically mixed. The foundation of many of those nation states involved population movements in the aftermath. When the only one that is repeatedly held up as unjust and unjustifiable is the Zionist project, the term anti-semitism may very well be appropriate. - P*D


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Renauda
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HOLY CARP!!!
Well I have agree that Bill C68 was very ill conceived, expensive and stupidly managed. But nevertheless the Nuge seems to forget that personal ownership of handguns and long rifles is not illegal in Canada. I know plenty of people who own firearms of both kinds who are not criminals.
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John D'Oh
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It's hard to imagine Ted being this ignorant of foreign country's laws, isn't it.

I'm not completely sure I'd want to blame Idi Amin's reign of horror on gun control either, to be honest. Or the holocaust. It's like he trawled through Wikipedia looking for things to pin on gun control - no, he couldn't have done that.
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John D'Oh
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Phlebas
Jul 13 2010, 09:51 AM
John D'Oh
Jul 13 2010, 09:43 AM
Quote:
 
no-guns-or-gunpowder-allowed IRA bombings and shoot-'em-ups in Bono's Ireland


Firstly, Bono is from Dublin, in Eire. The majority of IRA bombings occurred in Northern Ireland, a completely different country.

Secondly, during the height of the terrorist campaign the streets of Northern Ireland were constantly patrolled by heavily armed police and British soldiers.

Only someobody completely ignorant of some fairly significant facts would try and equate the troubles in Northern Ireland with a lack of gun control in 'Bono's Ireland'. It's like blaming 9-11 on opponents of the NRA in Canada.
Yeah. That was pretty silly, but I think the point was the people with "guns" were the criminals (provos) and the government. Regular citizens couldn't legally own guns. Not sure it that was really true, though. Also, I'm not sure how many citizens would have tried to take out either the IRA or the soldiers if they could have owned guns.
From Wiki:

Quote:
 
Northern Ireland
Gun ownership is more common in Northern Ireland than in Great Britain. Approximately 90,000 people in Northern Ireland own firearms, having 140,000 between them. Gun control laws in Northern Ireland are slightly different than in Great Britain, being primarily affected by the Firearms (Northern Ireland) Order 2004. Under the new law, first-time gun buyers will be required to demonstrate they can be trusted with the weapon. It will be up to gun dealers selling the weapons to tell new buyers, and those upgrading their weapons, about the safety procedures. Firearm owners in Northern Ireland must not transport their firearms to Great Britain. Northern Ireland is the only part of the United Kingdom where personal protection is accepted as a legitimate reason to obtain and own a firearm and is the only part of the United Kingdom where handguns are not prohibited. However a firearm certificate for a personal protection weapon will only be authorised where the Police Service of Northern Ireland deems there is a ‘verifiable specific risk’ to the life of an individual and that the possession of a firearm is a reasonable, proportionate and necessary measure to protect their life.[19]


If I didn't know better, I'd say Teddy was full of sh!t. :lol:
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Phlebas
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John D'Oh
Jul 13 2010, 10:08 AM
Phlebas
Jul 13 2010, 09:51 AM
John D'Oh
Jul 13 2010, 09:43 AM
Quote:
 
no-guns-or-gunpowder-allowed IRA bombings and shoot-'em-ups in Bono's Ireland


Firstly, Bono is from Dublin, in Eire. The majority of IRA bombings occurred in Northern Ireland, a completely different country.

Secondly, during the height of the terrorist campaign the streets of Northern Ireland were constantly patrolled by heavily armed police and British soldiers.

Only someobody completely ignorant of some fairly significant facts would try and equate the troubles in Northern Ireland with a lack of gun control in 'Bono's Ireland'. It's like blaming 9-11 on opponents of the NRA in Canada.
Yeah. That was pretty silly, but I think the point was the people with "guns" were the criminals (provos) and the government. Regular citizens couldn't legally own guns. Not sure it that was really true, though. Also, I'm not sure how many citizens would have tried to take out either the IRA or the soldiers if they could have owned guns.
From Wiki:

Quote:
 
Northern Ireland
Gun ownership is more common in Northern Ireland than in Great Britain. Approximately 90,000 people in Northern Ireland own firearms, having 140,000 between them. Gun control laws in Northern Ireland are slightly different than in Great Britain, being primarily affected by the Firearms (Northern Ireland) Order 2004. Under the new law, first-time gun buyers will be required to demonstrate they can be trusted with the weapon. It will be up to gun dealers selling the weapons to tell new buyers, and those upgrading their weapons, about the safety procedures. Firearm owners in Northern Ireland must not transport their firearms to Great Britain. Northern Ireland is the only part of the United Kingdom where personal protection is accepted as a legitimate reason to obtain and own a firearm and is the only part of the United Kingdom where handguns are not prohibited. However a firearm certificate for a personal protection weapon will only be authorised where the Police Service of Northern Ireland deems there is a ‘verifiable specific risk’ to the life of an individual and that the possession of a firearm is a reasonable, proportionate and necessary measure to protect their life.[19]


If I didn't know better, I'd say Teddy was full of sh!t. :lol:
I know little about Norther Ireland, and obviously their gun ownership laws aren't among the tidbits I know.
Yeah, ted's full of ****.
Random FML: Today, I was fired by my boss in front of my coworkers. It would have been nice if I could have left the building before they started celebrating. FML

The founding of the bulk of the world's nation states post 1914 is based on self-defined nationalisms. The bulk of those national movements involve territory that was ethnically mixed. The foundation of many of those nation states involved population movements in the aftermath. When the only one that is repeatedly held up as unjust and unjustifiable is the Zionist project, the term anti-semitism may very well be appropriate. - P*D


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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
And Larry seems to have swallowed it hook, line, and sinker.
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
John - I think you're missing the point entirely.
Ted isn't blaming the Holocause, or the IRA's reign of terror on handguns or the lack thereof. He's simply pointing out that in places with fairly strict gun control, there opens a door for people to very easily be manipulated. That's the only point he's making. It's no history lesson or commentary on the facts of history. He's simply drawing a correlation in a place that isn't the U.S between violent crime and gun control laws.
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
You illustrate the point perfectly above in the Wiki article - of the 140k firearms in N. Ireland, almost none of them are handguns.
That's the point.
Most are goose guns, collectibles or antiques.
I doubt there are many AR-15 owners in Northern Ireland, and as the article states, the only handguns provisioned are where a very real threat is demonstrated *and* where a firearm is considered a proportionate and appropriate response. There are probably fairly few instances where such threats are deemed worthy of handgun ownership and conceal/carry.
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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George K
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Finally
It would seem to me that we have enough data, at least in this country, about the effectiveness of gun control laws. The cities with the strictest gun control laws are Chicago and Washington DC. THey are among the highest crime-rate cities as well.

I know correlation doesn't equal causation, but the fact remains that strict gun control laws haven't done a thing to curb crime.
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
Correlation doesn't equal causation - you're right. There are plenty of studies though to show that the violent crime rates drop after these laws go into effect, and while the strictest gun laws haven't caused any drop in crime, states with looser conceal/carry laws have seen dramatic decreases in violent crime (3-7% per year depending on the type of crime).
I don't think everyone needs to carry a gun - I just think it's clear that if your goal is to curb gun-related violence, gun control laws aren't the way to do it.

After reading through the N. Ireland bill and the explanation of its articles (here) - it's unfair to make the case that N. Ireland has loose gun laws. While guns may be allowed there, it's very clear that they're mostly allowed for agricultural use - in much the same way they are in most places. You can hardly read through that and make the case (seriously anyway) that N. Ireland is pro-gun, and therefore Ted Nugent is full of it.
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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John D'Oh
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KlavierBauer
Jul 13 2010, 11:03 AM
John - I think you're missing the point entirely.
My point was that he's an ignoranus - he' equating 'Bono's Ireland' and it's gun control laws and violence in the North to try and make his point. Presumably he picked on Bono since he sees him as a bleeding-heart liberal, whilst missing the rather more important point that 'Bono's Ireland' and the place with the violence are two completely different countries. There's a lot less violent crime in Eire than there is in the USA.

The story is still valid, of course, only the facts need to be changed.
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John D'Oh
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George K
Jul 13 2010, 11:34 AM
It would seem to me that we have enough data, at least in this country, about the effectiveness of gun control laws. The cities with the strictest gun control laws are Chicago and Washington DC. THey are among the highest crime-rate cities as well.
Statistics also show that cities with large numbers of black people have lots of crime. Maybe if they shipped all the blacks out to Bono's Ireland (the black Irish), the crime in the US would go down. This would also explain Idi Amin, since apparently there are quite a lot of black people in Uganda.

Personally, I'd be happier if they shipped Ted Nugent off to Uganda, but that's just me.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
John - I assume since you're trying to make an argument comparable to the gun violence argument you're going to cite the study in which cities that added more black people to their population ad a decrease in violent crime, and cities that got rid of black had an increase in violent crime?
Otherwise, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make other than that you understand the difference between correlation and causation.
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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John D'Oh
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KlavierBauer
Jul 13 2010, 12:54 PM
John - I assume since you're trying to make an argument comparable to the gun violence argument you're going to cite the study in which cities that added more black people to their population ad a decrease in violent crime, and cities that got rid of black had an increase in violent crime?
Otherwise, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make other than that you understand the difference between correlation and causation.
I think you might be missing the fact that I'm not being serious.

Presumably, you've given up on the argument that Bono's Ireland is so violent because of gun control.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Larry
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Axtremus
Jul 13 2010, 11:03 AM
And Larry seems to have swallowed it hook, line, and sinker.
No, it's just that I introduced a subject that you leftwing jackwagons have no ability to understand, and instead of getting the point, you're nitpicking minor details that don't have a damned thing to do with what the man is saying.

That's why liberals need to sit down, shut up, and leave running the country to those with the brains it takes to do it.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Quote:
 
Personally, I'd be happier if they shipped Ted Nugent off to Uganda, but that's just me.



Ted's a good guy. He also knows how to tell sh!t from shinola - something most liberals can't do..


Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
Quote:
 
Presumably, you've given up on the argument that Bono's Ireland is so violent because of gun control.

I never maintained such a thing. I think I started out by pointing out that everyone shouting that Nugent is full of it was missing the entire point of the piece.
It's easy to not address facts when you can find a mistake in the minutia of the argument.
The point you brought up is a valid one - I don't argue that. It simply didn't invalidate Ted's point for me.

Obviously Ted's over the top a bit - that's his schtick.
He brings up some good points though - for those open to receive them. Obviously people who don't like guns don't and won't like guns. I understand that - I'm married to a gun-disliker ("hater" seemed too strong).

As for you not being serious - you're fairly transparent when it comes to these things. You discuss even serious topics fairly halfheartedly so that it's easy to retreat to the "I'm just kidding" stance if need be. Your views while very tolerant and lighthearted, can be serious. I think from previous discussions that you personally probably don't feel too strongly one way or the other, but you do have an opinion on the subject - especially if the UK is mentioned at all. Your points were clearly about the mischaracterization of Ireland and the UK, not anything about gun rights and whether or not more law abiding people carrying guns reduces violent crime (which is the whole point of the piece).
Edited by KlavierBauer, Jul 13 2010, 01:37 PM.
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Actually, I prefer box cutters....... :D

No license required, no one questions you having one in your pocket, and if I'm angry enough to want to kill you, I want to be close enough to look into your eyes as I lay your intestines out on the floor in front of you....


(for the liberal weenies thinking "oh what a cruel, sick man".. it's called humor....)

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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John D'Oh
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KlavierBauer
Jul 13 2010, 01:34 PM
Quote:
 
Presumably, you've given up on the argument that Bono's Ireland is so violent because of gun control.

I never maintained such a thing. I think I started out by pointing out that everyone shouting that Nugent is full of it was missing the entire point of the piece.
It's easy to not address facts when you can find a mistake in the minutia of the argument.
The point you brought up is a valid one - I don't argue that. It simply didn't invalidate Ted's point for me.
You already agreed with his conclusion before you read the piece, so the factual inaccuracies in his argument become irrelevant.

As far as bringing other countries into the debate - what Ted fails to realise, and he's not alone, is that arguments regarding gun control in the US don't necessarily apply to other countries and cultures. Arming the Northern Irish populace in the 1960's and 1970's, a country filled with religious bigotry and ethnic hatred, would have been a freaking disaster. The reason the British army went in initially was because the Loyalists were beating the living crap out of the Catholic minority. Take another example - England, a country with a major violent crime problem, much of which is caused by the English predilection for binge-drinking. Some people have suggested that relaxing gun controls in England would reduce violent crime - ignoring the fact that most of the crime is caused by violent drunks. Arming violent English drunks with handguns is just about the worst possible solution to the problem I can imagine.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Piano*Dad
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Quote:
 
As far as bringing other countries into the debate - what Ted fails to realise, and he's not alone, is that arguments regarding gun control in the US don't necessarily apply to other countries and cultures. Arming the Northern Irish populace in the 1960's and 1970's, a country filled with religious bigotry and ethnic hatred, would have been a freaking disaster.


I think this is quite true. It's a common conceit among social scientists that their regression analyses of behavior can easily generalize across culture and over time. One thing I have learned from team teaching a course with an historian is the importance of context and contingency. No, I have not abandoned my positivist outlook. I do think that behavior can be modeled usefully, but people who blithely ignore the important differences that history bequeaths to each situation are cruisin' for a bruisin'.

Equating the Irish 'troubles' with the kind of murder and larceny (often with the use of handguns) in the US is a recipe for misreading the evidence (that's polite for stupid 'analysis').
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
I'll stop repeating myself AFTER this one last time.
You're missing the entire point.

For what it's worth - I'm not a huge Nugent fan - he's a bit too conservative for me - his arguments often lack substance aren't incredibly articulate even though they contain a few big words. So no - my mind wasn't made up before reading the piece - at least not in terms of my opinions of what he has to say on the subject.
The factual inaccuracies of his argument are extremely relevant if they have anything to do with the context of the piece.
Once again - I'm not discounting your knowledge on this subject. I'm willing to bet you know a fair more about N. Ireland than I do, or am interested to learn.
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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John D'Oh
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KlavierBauer
Jul 13 2010, 03:18 PM
I'll stop repeating myself AFTER this one last time.
You're missing the entire point.
No, I'm not. He's saying that less gun control leads to less violence, and more control leads to more. I'm saying that's too simplistic.

I'm also saying he's a bit of a tool because he doesn't know the difference between two countries. I don't think there's any debate about that.

I don't know much about Northern Ireland, either, incidentally. Or Bono, thank God.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
Well that's the first I've seen you make the point that it's too simplistic - I just kept seeing talk about Ireland specifically.

I disagree with the view that he's being too simplistic, but I respect it.

I'm a tool too I suppose. I thought Eire was something Jamaican people said.
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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