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| OMG !!!!; Apple admits mistake. | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 2 2010, 08:03 AM (1,154 Views) | |
| KlavierBauer | Jul 13 2010, 12:56 PM Post #51 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have one. I'm just a consumer reports subscriber so I saw their latest and found it interesting that they confirmed the reception issue was real, and wasn't software related as Jobs promised.
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"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper "He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple | |
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| 1hp | Jul 13 2010, 01:50 PM Post #52 |
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Fulla-Carp
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The iPhone 4's biggest problem is not its antenna If Apple (AAPL) continues to sidestep the growing iPhone 4 antenna furor, it risks losing its grip as America's premiere tech company. Also in today's App Industry Roundup, experts are starting to talk about an iPhone 4 recall. Get a grip, Apple The biggest problem with the iPhone 4's antenna isn't whether it's faulty or fine, it's Apple. Apple has so far avoided the serious issue of whether the iPhone 4 has a legitimate hardware problem and instead obfuscated the issue by first telling users how to hold the new iPhone and then blaming a software glitch. As a result, Apple now has a big PR headache on top of an obvious hardware flaw. If Apple admitted the hardware flaw, its PR problem would start to go away. But it hasn't, and news organizations including Consumer Reports and Engadget continue to prove the antenna is faulty. Worse, countless consumers have weighed in on the matter ... and that's Apple's biggest problem. The iconic computer maker is in danger of losing its grip on the public psyche, an incredible asset it has milked for the last decade to become one of America's most admired companies. Apple's CEO, Steve Jobs, is beloved because of his singular vision and insistence that good design and computing hardware go hand in hand. Jobs utters, we listen. It is a unique power Bill Gates could never muster. Now Apple is on the cusp of throwing it away, much like it is apparently deleting discussion threads from its message boards about the Consumer Reports story. Apple's products have reached beyond the fanboys who tolerate the company's flaws and into the mainstream, where grandparents and in-laws are mad because when they finally buy a smartphone, they expect the phone portion to work properly. Apple needs to address this problem head on, not blame software oddities. And the sooner it does so, the sooner it can move away from what has become a legitimate crisis for the company. |
| There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those that understand binary and................ | |
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| OperaTenor | Jul 13 2010, 02:53 PM Post #53 |
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Pisa-Carp
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A little messenger-shooting here. I stopped believing CR to be the last word on buying recommendations some time ago, when we went with their #1 rated playpen for Altoid, instead of the pack-n-play everyone else in the known universe was getting, because that was somewhat down the list. The Fisher-Price POS we got instead was too difficult to set up to bother with, and when packed(which took upwards of a half an hour, once I got the hang of it), was too big to fit flat in the trunk of out Honda Accord. This is what everyone else had to do to set up their pack-n-plays(she's finished with setup at 28 seconds): Heh. I was going to post at least a photo of the one we got, but it was apparently so unpopular all evidence of its existence has been obliterated from the interwebs. It was called the Fisher Price Close To Me Care Center. Edited by OperaTenor, Jul 13 2010, 02:54 PM.
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| Axtremus | Jul 13 2010, 03:44 PM Post #54 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Well ... while I quite believe that Steve Jobs intentionally tried to mislead and/or redirect attention from the antenna issue using the "software not calculating the # of bars right" excuse, the antenna issue may still be a software soluble problem. It really depends on what sort of antenna(e) they put in. There may be software signal processing tricks that can be applied to ameliorate a hardware design flaw. For sure, Apple, Inc. has an attitude problem. But they still make the best products for what I want to use them for. So I'll put up with the attitude problem and continue to buy from Apple, Inc. When some one else come up with better products with less of an attitude problem, I'll gladly switch away from Apple, Inc. |
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| Copper | Jul 13 2010, 04:13 PM Post #55 |
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Shortstop
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The iPhone is fragile. Drop it and the glass screen is likely to shatter. I don't know if you can even buy insurance for this because it is a well known feature. So you are virtually required to use a protective case. Wouldn't this case prevent the problem with the antenna? If so, the problem shouldn't be very widespread. And of course I agree that Apple's PR blunders make them look like 2008 republicans. |
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The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
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| George K | Jul 13 2010, 04:46 PM Post #56 |
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Finally
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| Axtremus | Jul 13 2010, 04:47 PM Post #57 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Do not worry. The Republicans will out blunder Apple, Inc.'s PR in 2012. |
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| George K | Jul 14 2010, 12:09 PM Post #58 |
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Finally
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An engineer looks at the iPhone and Consumer Reports: http://mobileanalyst.wordpress.com/2010/07/12/iphone-4-report-consumer-reports-study-is-full-of-crap/ Consumer Report iPhone4 study flawed Posted on July 12, 2010 by Bob Let me start off by saying that for much of my career, I worked as an electromagnetic engineer on exactly the kind of issues that now face Apple on the iPhone4. But this isn’t about me. It is about Consumer Reports and its not so scientific testing on the iPhone 4. Consumer reports “RF” engineers should know better than to think they can run an engineering grade test for an issue like this in a shielded room. And certainly not one with people in it. To even reasonably run a scientific test, the iPhone should have been sitting on a non-metallic pedestal inside an anechoic chamber. The base station simulator should have been also sitting outside the chamber and had a calibrated antenna plumbed to it from inside the chamber. I have not seen (update: i have seen the full video since yesterday afternoon) CR’s claim directly that the finger effect reduces the iPhones sensitivity by 20db as reported elsewhere, but unless CR connected to a functional point inside the iPhone that number is fantasy. Even the way they seem to have tested the change – by varying the base station simulator levels – seems to assume the iPhone receiver and/or transmitter operate in a linear fashion (the same way) across all signal strengths – bad assumption. Bottom line. From what I can see in the reports, Consumer Reports replicated the same uncontrolled, unscientific experiments that many of the blogging sites have done. I’m not saying that Apple has no h/w problem and they surely have a s/w issue. But I’m still wondering that if the software signal algorithm was not AFU’d in the first place how many, if anyone would talking about this “problem” I also don’t know what part of this problem is Apple’s and what part is related to the AT&T network. And we don’t know how the observed effect is, or is not, similar to other devices. We also don’t know if placing a finger on the antenna bridge is detuning the antenna or detuning the receiver itself. And neither does Consumer Reports. Oh. Mr Job’s, right now, silence is not golden. I’m quite sure Apple has these answers by now… If not, send me a few more iPhones ( i bought 3). I’ll find a chamber and get you some answers in a day. Ps. Blogged from my Iphone4 in a rest area on my way home from work, cause I just couldn’t help myself.. |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| 1hp | Jul 14 2010, 03:48 PM Post #59 |
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Fulla-Carp
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Engineer looks to be a little biased, plus I'll wager that he doesn't want anyone telling him that the pride and joy of his life (his new iPhone4) might have a problem. And he's typical of the know it all, but probably not much common sense engineer. There are several ways that one could run tests, and shielded room is one, anechoic chamber is another. One could also run the test outside in a wide open space.
Dude, every other phone, including the previous Apple offering doesn't have a problem, so AT&T is off the hook (typical, wants to blame anyone but Apple).
Who cares, same end result. Apple can figure out what went wrong and fix it. And I doubt it is detuning the receiver - that's an engineer trying to impress everyone with technical talk. Looking at his (Bob's) resume, I'll wager he hasn't been at an emissions test site in over 30 years, if ever. He claims to be one of the authors of the 802.11 spec, but looking at the spec he is only listed as one of maybe 100 voting members - he is not listed as a major contributor, so claiming to be an "author" is stretching things. |
| There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those that understand binary and................ | |
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| George K | Jul 14 2010, 03:54 PM Post #60 |
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Finally
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Probably the 2nd geekiest thread of the day, next to the "Das Boot" thread. |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| George K | Jul 15 2010, 04:33 AM Post #61 |
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Finally
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Can you jeer me now? "(T)here is a problem with its reception." Consumer Reports magazine, finding design flaws with the antenna of Apple's new iPhone 4, questioning Apple's previous explanations for the malfunction and declining to recommend buying the phone. Dear Apple Motors: My wife and I have been proud owners of Apple cars for years now, and we were really excited about your brand-new iDrive Sports Coupe. We've never seen a car with so many awesome features, and we especially love driving it around the neighborhood, past all those dull and boring cars in everyone else's driveways. In the last few weeks, though, we've noticed a small problem: Whenever we grip the lower-left portion of the steering wheel, the iDrive's speed immediately drops by 20 to 30 mph. As you can imagine, this can be troublesome, particularly when we're in heavy traffic — in the last week alone, we've just barely avoided a half-dozen fender benders. Since we know Apple cars are perfectly designed, we figure we must be doing something wrong. Can you set us straight? Confused in Chicago Dear Confused: Thanks for your message. You're absolutely right: Apple cars are perfectly designed, so you must be doing something wrong. Most people don't have any reason to grip the lower-left portion of the steering wheel, and those who hold the wheel somewhere else have reported no problems with fluctuating iDrive speeds. Consider a different grip, or try wrapping that part of the wheel in duct tape. It's also possible that you're not losing speed at all, but that your speedometer is simply registering incorrect readings from time to time — it's a bit of a bother, but certainly nothing for a loyal Apple Motors customer to worry about. Dear Apple Stylings: It's always sweet to put on another totally cool and meticulously crafted Apple garment. Whenever I do, I never fail to attract envious glances from all my friends, which is why I'm sorry to have to write you this note. The last Apple hoodie I purchased (the iBling) had all the typical great Apple touches — and then some. But there were also a few things that confused me. For instance, the left sleeve is at least 6 inches longer than the right sleeve. Also, the zipper pull is missing — and so is one whole side of the zipper itself. I wonder if you've heard any complaints from other people, or whether it's all in my head. P.S. I still love all my Apple stuff! Perplexed in Poughkeepsie Dear Perplexed: It's all in your head. The "few things" you describe help make every Apple garment a unique wearing experience. Try bending your left arm to take up some of the slack in the sleeves. A couple of strategically placed safety pins should get the zipper app up and running in no time. Dear Apple Flatware: We love setting our dinner table with Apple plates and saucers, not to mention Apple napkins and napkin holders. Our only question concerns your equally super-looking iGrub silverware, and particularly the salad forks, which keep poking us in the upper lip every time we try to put something into our mouths. It looks like the prong on the far right-hand side of the fork (looking from the handle end) is bent way up, compared to the other prongs — this can sometimes be quite painful. Will Apple be offering any fixes? Bleeding in Boise Dear Bleeding: No fixes are necessary. Spear your food using only the prongs on the left and bring the food only to the right side of your mouth. (Assuming you're right-handed — it's the opposite for lefties, of course.) Or switch to soup. |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| John D'Oh | Jul 15 2010, 04:40 AM Post #62 |
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MAMIL
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Having attended Standards development committees from time to time both here and in the UK, it's worth noting that about 50% of the attendees spend the meetings playing solitaire on their laptops - and some of those guys are later listed as major contributors. Hey, drinking coffee is a contribution of sorts, right? |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| 1hp | Jul 15 2010, 10:36 AM Post #63 |
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Fulla-Carp
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By chance I went to happy hour last night with some old colleagues. One of them brought along another colleague of his from a while back (we've all worked in communications in one form or another over the years) and that colleague is currently working for a local antenna design company. As chance would have it, several of the engineers at that company have iPhone4's, and wouldn't you know it, they had to test and verify the issue for themselves. So one by one, they tested 3 iPhones in................yes......................an anechoic chamber (Bob WILL be happy now) ..................they conveniently have one for performing antenna measurements.....................and yes, the measurements showed an approximate 10dB degradation when the hand (believe it or not, they have a calibrated hand for just such measurements - just like UL has calibrated fingers) was placed as described in the news articles. The engineer appeared to be competent enough, and my colleague also vouched for him, so that's good enough for me. Edited by 1hp, Jul 15 2010, 10:36 AM.
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| There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those that understand binary and................ | |
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| George K | Aug 1 2010, 03:34 PM Post #64 |
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Finally
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Ars Technica says that the iPhone antenna is "significantly worse" than competition.* Apple launched the iPhone 4 in 17 additional countries today, causing another round of debate over whether or not the iPhone 4's external antenna design is flawed or not. A UK consulting firm says its tests show the "death grip" problem is real, and "significantly" worse for the iPhone 4 than other smartphones. A review from Norway is less critical, suggesting the iPhone 4 gets better signal than competing phones and may be victim to AT&T's less "robust" wireless network. Shortly after the iPhone 4 began shipping in the US last month, users started to notice a problem: gripping the device in a certain way led to signal attenuation and, in some cases, dropped calls or poor data connections. While Apple CEO Steve Jobs was somewhat dismissive of the issue early on, testing conclusively demonstrated that the iPhone 4 had a higher signal attenuation than other smartphones when bridging a small gap on the lower left side of the device's stainless steel bezel. Apple later held a press conference that attempted to demonstrate that competing smartphones had "similar" problems, and that Apple had done its due diligence to thoroughly test the antenna before the iPhone 4 was released. Apple decided to offer all users a free iPhone 4 case to mitigate the problem while the company researched the matter further. Lest you thought the whole ordeal was over, however, UK-based PA Consulting Group performed its own analysis, using tests similar to those performed by Consumer Reports and others. Those tests are in line with what we have already seen: the iPhone 4 has a bigger problem with signal loss than other smartphones. PA's wireless expert Simon Tonks concluded that "the 'death grip' issue is real, and is worse for the Apple iPhone 4 than for other smartphones." He also added, "The iPhone 4's radio performance was also found to be generally at the lower end." Testing done on live networks in Norway show a similar problem, albeit with some caveats. Norway's Verdens Gang newspaper's testing (Norwegian) led it to the conclusion that some of the blame can be laid at the foot of wireless providers, such as AT&T in the US. Testing there noted the same "death grip" signal loss issue observed elsewhere, but also showed the iPhone performing better than the others in areas of very low signal strength. These reports are more evidence that Apple's design choices with the iPhone 4 have led to a very real problem with dropped signals. While little new light has been shed on the topic, Apple has promised to share any new findings on September 30, when the current free case program is set to expire. *note the missing "the" in front of the word "competition" in the title. |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| Axtremus | Aug 1 2010, 05:08 PM Post #65 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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IEEE Spectrum magazine's 15 minute podcast on the issue: http://spectrum.ieee.org/podcast/telecom/wireless/how-bad-is-the-iphone-4s-antenna-problem "How Bad is the iPhone 4's Antenna Problem?" |
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| George K | Aug 1 2010, 05:09 PM Post #66 |
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Finally
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For those of us that don't feel like listening to a podcast (because the spousal overunit is in the room), can you summarize, please? |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| John D'Oh | Aug 1 2010, 07:06 PM Post #67 |
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MAMIL
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'Testing antennae is actually quite difficult, and I'm really freaking awesome. Incidentally, my company is called AntennaSys. We can't afford an anechoic chamber so we tested it in a field. Oh, by the way, I'm a member of the IEEE'. (IEEE members number about 400,000 just in case you thought it was an exclusive club) |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| George K | Aug 1 2010, 07:10 PM Post #68 |
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Finally
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You never, ever fail. Thank, JD. |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| 1hp | Aug 1 2010, 08:20 PM Post #69 |
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Fulla-Carp
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One can only presume that they are implying that wicked AT&T has somehow added some devilish spell to their network, such that iPhone4's are purposely targeted with "less robustness" while all other phones on their system (including prior Apple offerings) function much better. That must be what AT&T was doing when they stated that they have been investing billions of dollars on their network. How fiendish. Lucky for us we have those smart Norwegians watching over us.
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| There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those that understand binary and................ | |
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| Axtremus | Aug 1 2010, 09:43 PM Post #70 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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D'Oh was being polite ... I'm likely even less impressed than D'Oh by what I've heard. ![]() I was going to ask whether you're a member, but then I realized that that's less than half the number of people with "Top Secret" clearance in the US -- more than twice as exclusive as the "Top Secret" club.
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| John D'Oh | Aug 2 2010, 04:51 AM Post #71 |
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MAMIL
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It's a funny thing - I've never joined a single association in my entire career, pretty much because I can't be bothered to fill in the forms - membership is even paid for by my employer, I just never get around to it. I know plenty of people who are members, but they've been unable to give me a single concrete advantage that they get out of it. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| JBryan | Aug 2 2010, 05:01 AM Post #72 |
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I am the grey one
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I was once an IEEE member but let it lapse because the only thing I got out of it was a lot of magazines I never read. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| jon-nyc | Aug 2 2010, 05:12 AM Post #73 |
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Cheers
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I had a student membership back in the day, maybe it was even a full membership. |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| George K | Aug 16 2010, 03:37 AM Post #74 |
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Finally
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Oh, noes! Uh-oh: Early Droid 2 Units Having Signal Issues? Don't fire up the Antennagate Alarm just yet, but we're hearing a good number of reports within our geeky circle that Motorola's brand new baby, the Verizon Droid 2, might not be so good with that whole maintaining-a-solid-signal thing. We're not sure just how widespread the issue is - this thing did just ship two days ago after all (hell, a lot of people are just getting their mail ordered units today), so it's a bit tough to gauge. Amongst those we know who have had 'em for a day or two and who pay an nearly obsessive amount of detail to stuff like this, however, it's pretty much unanimous: these early units seem to be having issues. The signal on one of the two units we received is all over the board, dipping from full signal down to nearly none whilst sitting in the same spot (and no, we're not holding it wrong). Engadget's review says that four out of four of their units show endlessly fluctuating bar counts, and our buddy Rich Brome of Phonescoop says he's having bad luck with his, as well. That's 6 review units, all showing signs of signal woes. Not a good sign. Could it just be the early units? Perhaps. Can it be fixed with a software patch? Hopefully! We'll keep digging and let you know what we find out - but in the mean time, keep your ear to the ground and let us know what you hear. If you've picked up a Droid 2, drop a comment below and let us know how your signal looks. |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| KlavierBauer | Aug 17 2010, 01:22 PM Post #75 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Two words: HTC Epic. |
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"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper "He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple | |
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Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have one. I'm just a consumer reports subscriber so I saw their latest and found it interesting that they confirmed the reception issue was real, and wasn't software related as Jobs promised.






4:35 PM Jul 10