Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to The New Coffee Room. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
The American Crusade Against Islam
Topic Started: May 10 2010, 08:00 AM (918 Views)
kathyk
Member Avatar
Pisa-Carp
I just happened upon this story that popped up on my work home page, which the generic MSN page. Honest - I don't go looking for this stuff.

Jacksonville City Council Stirs Anti-Muslim Sentiments

Is this an aberration or is this a reflection of large segment of our society? Sounds like the whole town of Jacksonville is dominated by these people.
Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
JoeB
Member Avatar
Senior Carp
Quote:
 
Is this an aberration or is this a reflection of large segment of our society?


I think the fact the city council voted 13 to 6 in favor of appointing Ahmed is quite reflective of the general fairness and lack of bias of American society. It does sound like the whole town of Jacksonville is dominated by the type of people who would appoint a Muslim to an important post based on the fact that he is the best person for the job. Why do you have a problem with that?
"There are many ingredients in the stew of annoyance." - Bucky Katt
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
jon-nyc
Member Avatar
Cheers
I think anti-Islam sentiments should be expressed regularly, along with anti-Christianity and anti-Judaism sentiments.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Dewey
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Quote:
 
Sounds like the whole town of Jacksonville is dominated by these people.


No, it doesn't. According to the story, the man's appointment was approved by a significant majority, including even one of the First Baptist members, and the OneJax group obviously had a substantial turnout at the meeting, showing that the whole town was far from dominated by the First BAptist loonies, and far from being a "crusade" being fought by the whole town.

The man should not have been questioned for the post based on the fact that he is a Muslim. On the other hand, I am very suspicious of any person who has been affiliated with the foul, extremist Council on American Islamic Relations. And yes, I've had some personal exposure to them.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Larry
Member Avatar
Mmmmmmm, pie!
There should be a crusade against islam in america. There's definitely a crusade in islam against america.

Unfortunately for America, there are plenty of idiots willing to help them....
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ivorythumper
Member Avatar
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
jon-nyc
May 10 2010, 08:38 AM
I think anti-Islam sentiments should be expressed regularly, along with anti-Christianity and anti-Judaism sentiments.
Bankers are a bigger threat to American freedom than any religion.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Piano*Dad
Member Avatar
Bull-Carp
You guys are so funny when you're angry. :sombrero:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
kathyk
Member Avatar
Pisa-Carp
Dewey
May 10 2010, 08:41 AM
Quote:
 
Sounds like the whole town of Jacksonville is dominated by these people.


No, it doesn't. According to the story, the man's appointment was approved by a significant majority, including even one of the First Baptist members, and the OneJax group obviously had a substantial turnout at the meeting, showing that the whole town was far from dominated by the First BAptist loonies, and far from being a "crusade" being fought by the whole town.


Um, did you read this part of the article?

Quote:
 
[T]he City of Jacksonville is dominated politically and culturally by First Baptist, which covers nine city blocks in downtown Jacksonville and has over 29,000 members. First Baptist’s leadership has a history of promoting anti-Muslim disinformation and anger, especially the misinformed opinion that Muslims and Christians worship different gods. From the 2002 sermon before the Southern Baptist Convention in which Jerry Vines, then-head pastor and SBC president, called Muhammad a “demon-possessed pedophile,” to an inflammatory sermon a year ago in which current pastor Jim Smyrl urged members to oppose the “new mosque” in Jacksonville (there was in fact no new mosque, the twenty-year-old Islamic Center was doing some work), First Baptist promotes the divisive caricature of Islam about which Posner writes.
Edited by kathyk, May 11 2010, 06:38 PM.
Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Dewey
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Quote:
 
Um, did you read this part of the article?


Yes, I did. Interestingly, I read all the way to the end, too.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
apple
one of the angels
our community at large is very welcoming to all types of middle easterners and asians.. I don't think it is an issue whether or not they are islamic
it behooves me to behold
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
kathyk
Member Avatar
Pisa-Carp
Dewey
May 11 2010, 06:41 PM
Quote:
 
Um, did you read this part of the article?


Yes, I did. Interestingly, I read all the way to the end, too.
Well, I'm not sure how you can deny the town's anti-Islam bias then. The article is pretty clear that that church dominates the town in sheer numbers and the church is blatantly anti-Islam. The fact that some cool heads on the town council finally prevailed does not negate that.
Edited by kathyk, May 11 2010, 06:52 PM.
Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Larry
Member Avatar
Mmmmmmm, pie!
Quote:
 
especially the misinformed opinion that Muslims and Christians worship different gods



They do worship different Gods. If you don't understand this, you don't really know very much about Christianity.


Quote:
 
called Muhammad a “demon-possessed pedophile,”


I gather you don't have much use for history? Or do you think marrying a 6 year old is ok?


Of the Pokatwat Tribe

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Larry
Member Avatar
Mmmmmmm, pie!
Oops - I made an error. He married her when she was 6. He waited until she was 9 to screw her.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Larry
Member Avatar
Mmmmmmm, pie!
Quote:
 
If you don't understand this, you don't really know very much about Christianity.



Oops - I made *another* error.

Of course you don't know much about Christianity.. What on earth was I thinking....
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ivorythumper
Member Avatar
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
kathyk
May 11 2010, 06:36 PM

Um, did you read this part of the article?

Quote:
 
[T]he City of Jacksonville is dominated politically and culturally by First Baptist, which covers nine city blocks in downtown Jacksonville and has over 29,000 members. First Baptist’s leadership has a history of promoting anti-Muslim disinformation and anger, especially the misinformed opinion that Muslims and Christians worship different gods. From the 2002 sermon before the Southern Baptist Convention in which Jerry Vines, then-head pastor and SBC president, called Muhammad a “demon-possessed pedophile,” to an inflammatory sermon a year ago in which current pastor Jim Smyrl urged members to oppose the “new mosque” in Jacksonville (there was in fact no new mosque, the twenty-year-old Islamic Center was doing some work), First Baptist promotes the divisive caricature of Islam about which Posner writes.
Jacksonville proper has over 900,000 people -- it strikes me as credulous to believe that 3% of the population dominates anything just because a religious opinion website says so.

And whether or not Muhammad was demon possessed, he was a pedophile marrying and consummating with a 9 year old girl.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Phlebas
Member Avatar
Bull-Carp
Larry
May 11 2010, 08:02 PM
Quote:
 
especially the misinformed opinion that Muslims and Christians worship different gods



They do worship different Gods. If you don't understand this, you don't really know very much about Christianity.



In fairness, Kathy didn't say this. It was a quote from the article.
However, if the author has that little understanding of Islam and Christianity - eg, which religion believes in the Trinity as divine entities, and which does not - then they don't know enough to write about either.
Random FML: Today, I was fired by my boss in front of my coworkers. It would have been nice if I could have left the building before they started celebrating. FML

The founding of the bulk of the world's nation states post 1914 is based on self-defined nationalisms. The bulk of those national movements involve territory that was ethnically mixed. The foundation of many of those nation states involved population movements in the aftermath. When the only one that is repeatedly held up as unjust and unjustifiable is the Zionist project, the term anti-semitism may very well be appropriate. - P*D


Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Dewey
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Quote:
 
Well, I'm not sure how you can deny the town's anti-Islam bias then.


I can, because of the almost complete lack of factual reporting on the general opinions of the city at large, and mostly, because of the nature of the meeting and the outcome of the vote as detailed in the article. The facts reported in the article don't coincide with the claims made at the beginning of the article. It's nothing more than an exercise in critical reading.

Quote:
 
The article is pretty clear that that church dominates the town in sheer numbers and the church is blatantly anti-Islam.


The article makes clear that the church is large, citing its physical size and membership. The article claims that this translates into political and cultural dominance. See IT's population comment. Even with political force-multiplication tactics, it's pretty hard to dominate something when you make up 3% of the total. There's a relatively well-known televangelist who runs a megachurch on the south side of Columbus, whose main campus sits on 57 acres, not counting his Bible college that sits a few miles away. As big as his operation is - and as repulsive as some of his actions are - it would be inaccurate - even laughable - to characterize his thoughts as in any way being dominating or being representative of public sentiment here in the 1.1 million greater metropolitan area of Columbus. The author has made this claim with little or no corroborating evidence to support it. In fact, based on the reporting of the meeting, just the opposite is true.

Quote:
 
The fact that some cool heads on the town council finally prevailed does not negate that.


Cool heads never prevail in any governmental meeting, unless by "cool" you mean "politically astute." The council simply recognized that there was simply a preponderance of public support for the man, which was clearly seen at the hearing. In fact, there wasn't any reporting about anyone from the general public coming forward to speak against his appointment - a rather telling detail, considering the author's claim of citywide intolerance. Quite the opposite, actually. The article itself reports not only the lopsided 13-6 vote in favor of the candidate, including even one of the three members of First Baptist on the council; but also the fact that several council members themselves spoke out about the inappropriate and unacceptable line of questioning by their fellow member. It also reports on the support being given OneJax and a local reporter who has written about the issue in support of the man's candidacy.

The author could have written an article about the intolerance and bigotry expressed by a handful of members of a city council, spurred on by inflammatory sermons from the leadership of a large church in town that they are members of, and who, in the end, were unsuccessful in promoting their views - in fact, as a result of the incident their views have been more disregarded by the general public.

Instead, the author took the incident and tried unsuccessfully to force it into the preformed story template of "Bigoted Southern City Oppresses Muslim Man." The facts found in the story, however, shows that she allowed her own very different biases and bigotry to lead her to choose the wrong template. There is indeed an important story that these facts - and a few others that a good journalist could have included - would tell. Unfortunately, this isn't that story.







"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Phlebas
Member Avatar
Bull-Carp
ivorythumper
May 12 2010, 12:17 AM


And whether or not Muhammad was demon possessed, he was a pedophile marrying and consummating with a 9 year old girl.
Which is a lot different than knocking up a 15 year old the Annunciation.

:leaving:
Random FML: Today, I was fired by my boss in front of my coworkers. It would have been nice if I could have left the building before they started celebrating. FML

The founding of the bulk of the world's nation states post 1914 is based on self-defined nationalisms. The bulk of those national movements involve territory that was ethnically mixed. The foundation of many of those nation states involved population movements in the aftermath. When the only one that is repeatedly held up as unjust and unjustifiable is the Zionist project, the term anti-semitism may very well be appropriate. - P*D


Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Piano*Dad
Member Avatar
Bull-Carp
Dewey,

A lot of the ministers and rectors I have recently encountered are passionately .... rational. They are also good at critical analysis, and that includes critical insight into their own religious texts. You are fitting right in to that pattern!

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Piano*Dad
Member Avatar
Bull-Carp
Phlebas
May 12 2010, 03:36 AM
ivorythumper
May 12 2010, 12:17 AM


And whether or not Muhammad was demon possessed, he was a pedophile marrying and consummating with a 9 year old girl.
Which is a lot different than knocking up a 15 year old the Annunciation.

:leaving:
From the Catholic Encyclopedia:

Quote:
 
The opinion that Joseph at the time of the Annunciation was an aged widower and Mary twelve or fifteen years of age, is founded only upon apocryphal documents.


Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ivorythumper
Member Avatar
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Phlebas
May 12 2010, 03:36 AM
ivorythumper
May 12 2010, 12:17 AM


And whether or not Muhammad was demon possessed, he was a pedophile marrying and consummating with a 9 year old girl.
Which is a lot different than knocking up a 15 year old the Annunciation.

:leaving:
Uh, yeah, most rational people would acknowledge the difference between a prepubescent girl and a post adolescent young woman.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Phlebas
Member Avatar
Bull-Carp
ivorythumper
May 12 2010, 10:17 AM
Phlebas
May 12 2010, 03:36 AM
ivorythumper
May 12 2010, 12:17 AM


And whether or not Muhammad was demon possessed, he was a pedophile marrying and consummating with a 9 year old girl.
Which is a lot different than knocking up a 15 year old the Annunciation.

:leaving:
Uh, yeah, most rational people would acknowledge the difference between a prepubescent girl and a post adolescent young woman.
You crack me up the way any statement/joke/comment about the Catholic church or Christianity brings your insecurities and sensitivities out. :lol2: :lol2:

The only thing I'm surprised at is how it took so long.

Random FML: Today, I was fired by my boss in front of my coworkers. It would have been nice if I could have left the building before they started celebrating. FML

The founding of the bulk of the world's nation states post 1914 is based on self-defined nationalisms. The bulk of those national movements involve territory that was ethnically mixed. The foundation of many of those nation states involved population movements in the aftermath. When the only one that is repeatedly held up as unjust and unjustifiable is the Zionist project, the term anti-semitism may very well be appropriate. - P*D


Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ivorythumper
Member Avatar
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
If you had any sense of security in your own world view you would not be making bigoted and baiting remarks about the faith of other people here.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Phlebas
Member Avatar
Bull-Carp
ivorythumper
May 12 2010, 10:32 AM
If you had any sense of security in your own world view you would not be making bigoted and baiting remarks about the faith of other people here.
Of course I wouldn't. You're absolutely right. :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

Seriously, I joke about everything and anything. If you took what I posted to be a bigoted remark about someone elses faith, that just shows more about you.

Why don't you lighten up, and unpucker yourself - for ****s sake?
Random FML: Today, I was fired by my boss in front of my coworkers. It would have been nice if I could have left the building before they started celebrating. FML

The founding of the bulk of the world's nation states post 1914 is based on self-defined nationalisms. The bulk of those national movements involve territory that was ethnically mixed. The foundation of many of those nation states involved population movements in the aftermath. When the only one that is repeatedly held up as unjust and unjustifiable is the Zionist project, the term anti-semitism may very well be appropriate. - P*D


Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ivorythumper
Member Avatar
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Why don't you try to develop a sense of civility?
The dogma lives loudly within me.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Enjoy forums? Start your own community for free.
Learn More · Register Now
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · The New Coffee Room · Next Topic »
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1