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| Arizona Immigration Law; Governor signed it into law today | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 23 2010, 02:49 PM (2,021 Views) | |
| OperaTenor | Apr 26 2010, 08:00 AM Post #51 |
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Pisa-Carp
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*DING* WINNAR! |
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| Axtremus | Apr 26 2010, 08:10 AM Post #52 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Applies to just about any one who transits via, say, the PHX airport. It's messy. I'm for "mandatory National ID," which will go a long way towards solving the problem; though the folks who are most likely to support this Arizona law is also most likely to oppose "National ID." |
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| taiwan_girl | Apr 26 2010, 08:38 AM Post #53 |
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Fulla-Carp
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I agree. I think that the US should have a national ID card. It would be interesting to see how many people here on this forum board are in favor or against. Maybe that is another topic.
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| ivorythumper | Apr 26 2010, 09:07 AM Post #54 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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Last I checked, the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania was part of the United States. |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| ivorythumper | Apr 26 2010, 09:11 AM Post #55 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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So what do you think of Caesar Chavez's policies in favor of turning in illegal aliens? from wiki:
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| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| Dewey | Apr 26 2010, 09:32 AM Post #56 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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shantinik... shantinik... paging shantinik... ![]() Arizona isn't wasting its time trying to solve a federal problem, it's trying to solve a state problem caused by lack of action on Washington's part. More power to them. Having said that, the real problem is the ridiculous immigration system, at least as it is applied to Hispanic nations. We need secure borders, but we also need realistic immigration policy that makes people who want to come to this country able to do so legally, and in the numbers which our economy apparently requires. Make them legal, so they aren't so terrified of deportation (almost impossible, but a fear nonetheless) that they'll die of appendicitis, sitting in their apartment with their 16 roommates, rather than going to the hospital for treatment. Make them legal, so they're not only paying their FICA taxes (and realize that most of them are paying into FICA, using fake SSNs, into a system that they'll never access), but they're also paying federal, state, and local income taxes. Make them legal, so they don't have to pay outrageous amounts of money to coyotes to get them across the border, or risk being robbed, raped, beaten, or killed, in dozens of ways just trying to travel from their own country into ours. To be honest, the dangers that many illegal immigrants from Central and South America face just to get here so they can put food on the table for their families back home, are much more than the dangers faced by so many of our legal, supposedly more acceptable forebears coming from other places in other times. We should really understand what most of them have gone through just to get here, and respect that. Make them legal, so employers can't knowingly and willingly exploit them, making them nothing more than slave labor. Make them legal, because it's the right thing to do. If someone is here illegally *after* we set our immigration policy right and secure our border, then they should be put on the first bus or plane home. But at present, our arguments against legalizing many, if not most, of those already here illegally ring a bit hollow when our country has stacked the deck in order to make legal immigration almost impossible, while there are no jobs available int heir home countries, and there are jobs here. I can tell you that if I were in their shoes, I would do everything I could to get across that border and find work to support my family. And I wouldn't lose a minute's sleep if, because the system was set up to make it so, I had to get here illegally. |
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| big al | Apr 26 2010, 10:12 AM Post #57 |
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Bull-Carp
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My point was that Pennsylvania required no evidence of citizenship or immigration status at the time I secured my Pennsylvania driver's license so it can not (or at least should not) be considered evidence of legal residence in the USA. Furthermore, there have been ongoing disputes in several states as to whether or not to issue driver's licenses to illegal aliens. Big Al |
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Location: Western PA "jesu, der simcha fun der man's farlangen." -bachophile | |
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| 1hp | Apr 26 2010, 10:36 AM Post #58 |
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Fulla-Carp
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Funny how no one sees the solution as forcing the Mexican government to work on making a better life for Mexicans in Mexico. There is, after all, a reason that Mexicans are in the US. Why is it that the US is expected to bend over backwards for what is a Mexico problem? |
| There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those that understand binary and................ | |
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| Aqua Letifer | Apr 26 2010, 10:43 AM Post #59 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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I've been saying that for a long time, actually. My cousin just finished up training to be a border guard in Arizona. From what he tells me NOTHING we do is going to prevent droves of people from trying to jump the border. Other methods to prevent border crossing aside, there's a reason they don't like their home country so much and want to leave. I also think that helping some of the home countries of some of our immigrants clean up their act would help us out in the long term, too. Not that this is the only solution but I think working with these other governments on something besides border patrol needs to happen if we want to see any long term solutions. |
| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| Steve Miller | Apr 26 2010, 10:50 AM Post #60 |
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Bull-Carp
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Curious, that. |
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Wag more Bark less | |
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| Dewey | Apr 26 2010, 11:27 AM Post #61 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Not me. I think it's crazy that we don't have one. |
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| Steve Miller | Apr 26 2010, 01:51 PM Post #62 |
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Bull-Carp
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But then again, you don't support the law. (GREAT post @ 10:32 BTW )
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Wag more Bark less | |
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| Dewey | Apr 26 2010, 02:03 PM Post #63 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Actually Steve, I do support the law, at least the provisions I've read about. It addresses a legitimate problem faced by the Arizonans, caused by the Federal government not doing the right thing. Since Arizona truly can't enact legislation to make them legal, and more able to fully participate within the society and economy, they have to do what they can. So in an odd twist, I support the AZ law - but I wish Washington would take the right steps, which would make the Arizona law unnecessary. And thanks for the compliment on the earlier post. I've been in the tight moral spot of receiving a phone call from Tijuana from a Honduran friend, asking if I could send him $200 to help him pay his coyote to get him across the border. I know this man; I've been a guest in his home (which, to call it "humble" would be a gross understatement). On my first trip to Honduras, I hurt myself (nothing too serious; smashed my hand with a hammer). He was working right beside me, he grabbed my hand and rubbed it until the pain went away. He's the pastor of a small house church that occupies half of his 20x20 house. I know his two sons - he's that rarest of Hondurans - a male single parent. I know that he can't afford to feed them, much less pay for their uniforms and books that they need in order to attend school. And I know that he's already literally risked his life just to get from Honduras to Tijuana, still with no guarantee he'll make it across the border and find work to support his boys. Getting phone calls like that put your larger geopolitical political views to the real test. Edited by Dewey, Apr 26 2010, 02:12 PM.
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| Mark | Apr 26 2010, 02:12 PM Post #64 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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A national ID? Really Dewey? OMG. Statist leanings abound. |
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___.___ (_]===* o 0 When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells | |
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| Dewey | Apr 26 2010, 02:14 PM Post #65 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I only say so because we already have one, Mark. We might as well stop pretending we don't, and at least accept the potential benefits of making it official. |
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| Mark | Apr 26 2010, 02:25 PM Post #66 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Um no we do not currently have one. |
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___.___ (_]===* o 0 When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells | |
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| Dewey | Apr 26 2010, 02:29 PM Post #67 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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You're right. Actually, we have at least two, our Social Security cards, and our passports. I've just never been one to get all worked up over that particular issue. I know that based on my overall political leanings, I'm supposed to, but I don't. I favor strong borders, and I see a national ID as an extension of that same national need. |
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| Mark | Apr 26 2010, 02:46 PM Post #68 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Um Passports are voluntary. I do not have one and suspect I never will have one. I have no desire to have one. SS cards are NOT an ID card. We do not have a mandatory national ID card and I want it to stay that way. |
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___.___ (_]===* o 0 When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells | |
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| Dewey | Apr 26 2010, 02:57 PM Post #69 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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SS cards were always *promised* not to be used as an ID card. We all know the reality is something very different. Passports are indeed voluntary. But I hope to need one many, many more times. Shoot, you can't even go to Canada without one any more. I'm just not afraid of a national ID card. I figure the government has shown its ability to fcuk me any way they want, even without one. Any particular way they could think of doing so with a card, they can find a way of doing without it. |
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| Steve Miller | Apr 26 2010, 02:59 PM Post #70 |
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Bull-Carp
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I "get" the ideology, but on a practical level what do you think would happen if we had one? What would change? |
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Wag more Bark less | |
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| ivorythumper | Apr 26 2010, 03:02 PM Post #71 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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A driver's license is certainly considered a valid form of identification for Federal purposes, such as TSA security checks, so I don't see why a State should not be entitled to the presumption of validity -- unless of course you for some other reason don't want the State to be entitled to the presumption of validity. |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| Mark | Apr 26 2010, 03:36 PM Post #72 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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OK, first of all WE CANNOT AFFORD ANY MORE GOVERNMENT! 300 million ID cards and the maintenance of said cards will cost billions and billions of dollars! We cannot afford it. We are already in debt way over our heads and the government keeps spending more in record amounts each and every day. Stop it already! |
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___.___ (_]===* o 0 When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells | |
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| Axtremus | Apr 26 2010, 03:52 PM Post #73 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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The whole point of the new Arizona law is to give state/local law enforcement officials the power to verify citizenship/immigration status. Driver's license from most states give no indication as to the holder's citizenship/immigration status. Get it? |
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| Axtremus | Apr 26 2010, 03:54 PM Post #74 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Mark, one national ID card system can replace all 50 states' 50 different systems. Any one whose job function is to check IDs then only needs to be trained to check one type of ID instead of 50 types. Think of all the savings! |
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| Mark | Apr 26 2010, 04:19 PM Post #75 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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No thank you! Stop forcing your views on me through the government. |
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___.___ (_]===* o 0 When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells | |
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