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Arizona Birther Bill vs. Hawaii Anti-Birther Bill
Topic Started: Apr 21 2010, 05:14 PM (523 Views)
Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
The tale of two birther bills:

(1) Arizona: http://hotair.com/archives/2010/04/21/arizona-house-passes-birther-bill/

(2) Hawaii: http://www.starbulletin.com/news/20100421_Anti-birther_bill_moves_forward.html

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jon-nyc
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And they wonder why we call them wingnuts.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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ivorythumper
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It seems kind of wingnutty to oppose a State law requiring the Secretary of State to certify the qualifications of Presidential candidates before admitting them to the State ballot.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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jon-nyc
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It isn't really the role of the individual states' secretaries to decide constitutional questions, that's what the supreme court does.

What if the wingnuts in AZ decided (for example) that someone born in Panama didn't meet the qualifications, even though he was born on a Navy base? That wouldn't mean squat, because they simply aren't empowered to make that call.
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ivorythumper
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Where again is the State deciding a constitutional question?
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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ivorythumper
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*crickets chirping*
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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jon-nyc
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Sorry. missed this, and your crickets.

The 'natural born citizen' qualification appears in the constitution (Article II, Section 1), any ambiguity as to its meaning can only be resolved by the Supreme Court.



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jon-nyc
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And lets be honest, this bill is simply an expression of birther nuttery in the AZ state legislature. I can't fathom living in a state where a majority in the state legislature have in effect signed on to a grand conspiracy theory.

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Mark
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HOLY CARP!!!
There is no ambiguity in the presidential qualification clause.
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o 0
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
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jon-nyc
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All you could possibly mean by that is 'I know what I think the clause means and I give no credence to any alternative interpretation'.


Mark - do you think there is any ambiguity to the 'necessary and proper' clause? How about the first amendment's protection of free speech?
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1hp
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Fulla-Carp

No one has yet answered the question as to why Obama has spent so much money keeping his birth certificate from being shown publicly.

There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those that understand binary and................
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
By your logic, Jon, states should have no role in assuring someone is a US citizen in order to work there.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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jon-nyc
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I don't think they do have a role, at least not directly. THe US government has mandated that employers do that. (I personally copied my babysitter's I-9 and keep it on file, as per the Feds)
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ivorythumper
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jon-nyc
Apr 25 2010, 03:48 AM
And lets be honest, this bill is simply an expression of birther nuttery in the AZ state legislature. I can't fathom living in a state where a majority in the state legislature have in effect signed on to a grand conspiracy theory.

One of the jobs of the Secretary of State is to certify candidates for the primaries. It is the role of the legislature to set the laws regarding that duty. You seem to be rather wing nutty in even having an opinion about how Arizona conducts its affairs in accordance with its own State constitution.

And you still have not given a shred of argument, let alone evidence, for how this State law decides US constitutional questions -- but then again I don't really expect you to try to defend your earlier statement anyway, it seems easier for you to just continue confusing the issue.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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jon-nyc
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You are a unique individual, IT.
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ivorythumper
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Naw, I think I am like a whole lot of people who can see through the ill considered attacks you frequently make against conservatives. ;)
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jon-nyc
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The nuttier ones bring it on themselves. I'm thinking specifically of the conspiracy theorists.
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ivorythumper
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Yeah, I'd like you to show me some evidence of the Arizona State Legislature being populated by conspiracy theorists, other than that you think they are because of a law directing the Secretary of State to certify presidential candidates in conformance with the qualifications as mandated by the US Constitution.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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jon-nyc
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Do you not think the current law is aimed at Obama?
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ivorythumper
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I think, like many laws, irregularities bring about new laws and highlight the need for reconsideration of process. You want to ascribe this to conspiracy theory? The simpler and more rational explanation is to avoid all doubt in the future since the stakes are so important in Presidential elections.

The law in and of itself is sound policy.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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jon-nyc
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McCain's take:

"I think that Secretary of State Ken Bennett, whose responsibilities these are, is correct and that the parameters for candidates for elected federal office are set by federal law and not by state law," McCain said Friday at a news conference in downtown Phoenix.
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ivorythumper
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Yes. It is still the duty of the Secretary of State to certify, which is what this law is about.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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jon-nyc
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ivorythumper
Apr 25 2010, 04:40 PM
...irregularities...
Its only an 'irregularity' if you think that entire state agencies in Hawaii are part of the conspiracy. If you don't buy into the conspiracy than what you have is a President that provided documentary evidence that was confirmed by the relevant authorities in the state of his birth.
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ivorythumper
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jon-nyc
Apr 25 2010, 04:55 PM
ivorythumper
Apr 25 2010, 04:40 PM
...irregularities...
Its only an 'irregularity' if you think that entire state agencies in Hawaii are part of the conspiracy. If you don't buy into the conspiracy than what you have is a President that provided documentary evidence that was confirmed by the relevant authorities in the state of his birth.
Tell me exactly what you know about the way the process to certify for the Arizona ballot was handled in 2008.

I'll wait.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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jon-nyc
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You'll be waiting a long time, as I have no interest in joining you on that tangent.

Here's what we know:

Either Obama was born in Hawaii, or there exists a large conspiracy creating that impression.
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