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Federal Deficit Slashed
Topic Started: Apr 13 2010, 06:02 AM (539 Views)
kathyk
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By 8%

I noticed no one resonded to Ax's thread about Congress cutting ear marks. Maybe our present guvmint is doing a better job of keeping costs under control than the naysayers would like to believe.

This really doesn't surprise me too much. From news blurbs I keep hearing, huge portions of the stimulus money are being returned by the recipient banks and companies, and we tax payers earned a handy little return on it, to boot.

Now, if we could just create a few million jobs, we'd be in great shape.
Edited by kathyk, Apr 13 2010, 06:18 AM.
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
No stimulus funds went to banks. You must be thinking TARP which was enacted under the previous administration.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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kathyk
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Bush may have enacted it in the first place, but this administration (Geithner) extended it. Even so, that's only one facet of the situation. You also have the AIG bailout, and the effect of the stimulus package, the effect of earmark cuts, taking control of the auto industry after their bailout, other budget cuts, etc. It's still early in Obama's presidency. Things are not looking too bad compared to how they were looking when he took oath.
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JBryan
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So far there is no indication the stimulus did any good at all. The only assets acquired under TARP that are doing well do not include auto companies (Obama). Earmark cuts are good but relatively meaningless in terms of reducing the deficit since they involve funds that have already been appropriated. Touting this administration as cutting the deficit is pure fantasy and utterly rediculous.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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Mark
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HOLY CARP!!!
Sure! Crank up the deficit to record breaking levels and then report a 8% cut in that deficit?

Come on Kathy you're smarter than that.

When you become a blind partisan cheerleading for a political party over what is right and good for this country you become part of the problem.
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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
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Luke's Dad
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It's like saying the asteroid striking the earth in 2012 will be 8% less apocalyptic than we originally anticipated.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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kathyk
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JBryan
Apr 13 2010, 06:41 AM
So far there is no indication the stimulus did any good at all. The only assets acquired under TARP that are doing well do not include auto companies (Obama). Earmark cuts are good but relatively meaningless in terms of reducing the deficit since they involve funds that have already been appropriated. Touting this administration as cutting the deficit is pure fantasy and utterly rediculous.
How do you know? How can you or anyone else measure the effect of the stimulus on the general upturn? And there's much more to it then just the stimulus, as I indicated in my earlier post, including the world econmy. In any event, all indicators are that things are taking a turn in the right direction - more than can be said for things during Bush's eight years, athough, they sure tried hard to make it seem otherwise. Remember all the rosy White House forecasts on the economy shortly be fore it crashed? But, I realize that it doesn't matter how good things get - neither Obama or the Dems will take credit for it in your eyes.
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kathyk
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Mark
Apr 13 2010, 06:50 AM
Sure! Crank up the deficit to record breaking levels and then report a 8% cut in that deficit?

Come on Kathy you're smarter than that.

When you become a blind partisan cheerleading for a political party over what is right and good for this country you become part of the problem.
And who cranked the deficit up? A cool trillion has gone so far for the farce of a war in Iraq we're still trying to end.
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Mark
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Well it started a long time ago Kathy.

Obama isn't doing anything to stop it. Ask for an increase of X. Get Increase of Y.

IT'S STILL A FREAKING INCREASE NOT A FREAKING CUT!

sheesh.
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Luke's Dad
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kathyk
Apr 13 2010, 09:08 AM
Mark
Apr 13 2010, 06:50 AM
Sure! Crank up the deficit to record breaking levels and then report a 8% cut in that deficit?

Come on Kathy you're smarter than that.

When you become a blind partisan cheerleading for a political party over what is right and good for this country you become part of the problem.
And who cranked the deficit up? A cool trillion has gone so far for the farce of a war in Iraq we're still trying to end.
First, remember that Mark is no fan of Bush or the war.

Second, compare:

Posted Image
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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The 89th Key
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That chart is disgusting. They should just have that on the screen for 30 minutes during the next election and the whole bunch of them would be swept out of office.
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JBryan
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kathyk
Apr 13 2010, 09:07 AM
JBryan
Apr 13 2010, 06:41 AM
So far there is no indication the stimulus did any good at all. The only assets acquired under TARP that are doing well do not include auto companies (Obama). Earmark cuts are good but relatively meaningless in terms of reducing the deficit since they involve funds that have already been appropriated. Touting this administration as cutting the deficit is pure fantasy and utterly rediculous.
How do you know? How can you or anyone else measure the effect of the stimulus on the general upturn? And there's much more to it then just the stimulus, as I indicated in my earlier post, including the world econmy. In any event, all indicators are that things are taking a turn in the right direction - more than can be said for things during Bush's eight years, athough, they sure tried hard to make it seem otherwise. Remember all the rosy White House forecasts on the economy shortly be fore it crashed? But, I realize that it doesn't matter how good things get - neither Obama or the Dems will take credit for it in your eyes.
If you think we were in constant recession throughout the Bush years there is really no hope of carrying on a reasonable discussion with you.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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kathyk
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No, but it was clear to most level-headed people that that is exactly where he was heading us with the war and the tax cuts. You take your nation to war, and you'd better be thinking about how you're gonna pay for it. That's not the time to start slashing taxes, and the way it was done, benefitting primarily the top five percent was nothing short of obscene. Then to try to mask how bad things were, he shifted $150 billion from the Social Security trust fund. So, yeah, Obama is stuck paying for two wars, and Social Security has been raided, he's been handed an all time budget deficit, is it any surprise things are looking pretty dismal at this point? You can blame him for the health care bill, but that's about as far as it goes. The guy you elected made the mess. Oh, and the riciulous Medicare D bill that primarly feathered the nest of Big Pharma and that he endorsed didn't help, either in terms of the budget deficit or managing spiraling health care costs.
Edited by kathyk, Apr 13 2010, 11:00 AM.
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JBryan
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Kathy, despite where "level headed people" thought things were going what years of the Bush presidency were we in recession? Don't try and tell us the war in iraq and his tax cuts brought on the current recession because "level headed people" understand it was the housing bubble and the financial melt down that followed.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
JBryan
 
... what years of the Bush presidency were we in recession?
The great recession started in December 2007 and outlasted the Bush 43 presidency.
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JBryan
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That is revisionist history in an attempt to help Obama. Unemployment hovered around 5% until the end of 2008. People kept talking about recession but there never was two consecutive quarters (the generally accepted definition of "recession") with negative growth until the end of 2008. Now, simply because someone issues a report that says it is so everyone is supposed to be bobble heads.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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kathyk
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Did I say we were in recession? I'll answer that for you. No. Bush came inn riding high on Clinton's wave of the prior 8 years, and brought us to the lowest point since WWII. After the first year or so of his term, the economy was on a slow downward decline. Another interesting graph from WaPo:

Posted Image

I realize that not all of what happened in his 8 year term can be blamed on him (namely, the meltdown in the financial industry), and not everything that happened during Clinton's tenure was his doing (e.g. the dot.com boom), but if we're going to start laying blame on Obama, who has barely finished his 2nd term, it is compeltely disingenuous to ignore the mess that he was expected to clean up when looking at bleak projections.

Hey, the subject of this post is good news.
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JBryan
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You present a graph of year by year deficits to support an argument about recession?

Sheesh.

Perhaps you forgot that bush came into office at the same time the dot com buble burst. Then there was 9/11. Despite all that the economy grew for nearly the remainder of his presidency after he cut taxes.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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kathyk
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No, I didn't forget that, and if you bothered to read my posts rather than do your knee-jerk thing (What, no "Kathy says the darnedest things?") you'd see that.
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jon-nyc
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The 89th Key
Apr 13 2010, 09:37 AM
That chart is disgusting. They should just have that on the screen for 30 minutes during the next election and the whole bunch of them would be swept out of office.
Too late, the guy responsible for the lion's share of it left in January 2009.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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JBryan
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kathyk
Apr 13 2010, 11:17 AM
No, I didn't forget that, and if you bothered to read my posts rather than do your knee-jerk thing (What, no "Kathy says the darnedest things?") you'd see that.
One could certainly be forgiven for believing you had:

Quote:
 
No. Bush came inn riding high on Clinton's wave of the prior 8 years
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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Luke's Dad
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JBryan
Apr 13 2010, 11:02 AM
Kathy, despite where "level headed people" thought things were going what years of the Bush presidency were we in recession? Don't try and tell us the war in iraq and his tax cuts brought on the current recession because "level headed people" understand it was the housing bubble and the financial melt down that followed.
Well that was still Bush's fault! Him and his "Community Reinvestment Act"! Wait, that was Carter?

Well, he still pushed the banks into accepting more risky loans, using the power of his AG! Oh, I'd forgotten that it was Clinton.

Well he should have at least sent some warning! Oh wait, he did.

Well, he didn't take it seriously enough, since he only tried once. Except for that second time.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
jon-nyc
Apr 13 2010, 11:17 AM
The 89th Key
Apr 13 2010, 09:37 AM
That chart is disgusting. They should just have that on the screen for 30 minutes during the next election and the whole bunch of them would be swept out of office.
Too late, the guy responsible for the lion's share of it left in January 2009.
I have seen your justification for this before and have found it, frankly, rather thin.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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The 89th Key
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So in summary, Clinton had the dot-com bubble help the economy until it popped right before GWB took office. I don't blame Clinton for that.

Combine that mess with 9/11 and Bush did a pretty damn good job using strategic tax cuts to help spur the economy back in the right direction. And then the financial meltdown and housing bubble popped as well, which I don't blame Bush for.

And then Obama (like Bush) had quite a mess to deal with starting his first year in office. I'll give it some time before I judge how effective Obama's policies are with the economy, although I do have my doubts with his taxing and spending habits so far...

One thing we can all agree on...all bubbles burst. :gum:
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jon-nyc
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JBryan
Apr 13 2010, 11:26 AM
jon-nyc
Apr 13 2010, 11:17 AM
The 89th Key
Apr 13 2010, 09:37 AM
That chart is disgusting. They should just have that on the screen for 30 minutes during the next election and the whole bunch of them would be swept out of office.
Too late, the guy responsible for the lion's share of it left in January 2009.
I have seen your justification for this before and have found it, frankly, rather thin.


The simple fact is Bush handed Obama a federal budget with a 1.1T deficit, after having inherited an federal budget in surplus. That is neither 'thin' nor 'thick', it simply 'is'.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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