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Obama authorizes assassination of American citizen
Topic Started: Apr 8 2010, 03:52 AM (996 Views)
Big John
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Senior Carp
From a 2003 article showing what was going to be lost under Patriot I and II:

Quote:
 
I am a U.S. citizen, do I really need to worry about any of these new anti-terrorism laws, they seem to focus only on immigrants?
The Justice Department is pushing for a vast expansion of the Patriot Act. Known as the Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003, or Patriot II, the bill would give the government unprecedented authority to strip the citizenship of Americans believed to support terrorist organizations. According to the bill, a U.S. citizen can be stripped of citizenship if he or she “becomes a member of, or provides material support to, a group that the United States has designated as a ‘terrorist organization,’ if that group is engaged in hostilities against the United States.”


source: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0307/S00041.htm

My question is this: Why has it taken you THIS LONG to get pis*ed about it?





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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
Proving it's true by repeating it? Well, that's been standard MO from the left for a while now.

The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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Big John
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JBryan
Apr 8 2010, 11:00 AM
You are confused about a few things. This "law on the books since WWII" was a Supreme Court ruling. The Supreme Court does not pass laws (or, at least, it shouldn't) it interprets the Constitution. In this case it found that what Rossevelt was doing was supported by the Constitution. In other words, this "law on the books" was in existence since the beginning of the republic. Next, this law ruling was not "given teeth" after 9/11. It was just as much in force in all the time intervening. Finally, where are these people who supported Bush and are now calling Obama a traitor for doing the same things Bush did? You seem to keep dancing around that one.
right here.

These forums are good samples of the broader population. Why wait for the media filters to sanitize and sugarcoat it? The raw news is much more informative.





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Big John
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Luke's Dad
Apr 8 2010, 11:02 AM
Proving it's true by repeating it? Well, that's been standard MO from the left for a while now.

I'm being facetious here by saying it's a left/right thing.

What no one seems to get is that there is something wrong when formerly outrageous ideas like civil insurrection or opposition to extreme measures to fight terrorists have now become fashionable.

the laws haven't changed. How people FEEL about them has, and it's when people act or interpret what's always been there out of fear that things get unpredictable.

I guess I'll have to join back up with the Republicans now that Obama is doing exactly what I disagreed with Bush doing. To do anything else would be hypocritical.





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Big John
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PS: WE are the newsmakers you know. These fora honestly give me at least a 12-hour jump on mainstream news.





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JBryan
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I am the grey one
Big John
Apr 8 2010, 11:00 AM
From a 2003 article showing what was going to be lost under Patriot I and II:

Quote:
 
I am a U.S. citizen, do I really need to worry about any of these new anti-terrorism laws, they seem to focus only on immigrants?
The Justice Department is pushing for a vast expansion of the Patriot Act. Known as the Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003, or Patriot II, the bill would give the government unprecedented authority to strip the citizenship of Americans believed to support terrorist organizations. According to the bill, a U.S. citizen can be stripped of citizenship if he or she “becomes a member of, or provides material support to, a group that the United States has designated as a ‘terrorist organization,’ if that group is engaged in hostilities against the United States.”


source: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0307/S00041.htm

My question is this: Why has it taken you THIS LONG to get pis*ed about it?
WTF is it I am supposed to be pissed about? Who is being stripped of their citizenship? Who says I am pissed about what Obama is doing now? It is becoming increasingly obvious that trying to have a rational discussion with you is a complete waste of time.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
Big John
Apr 8 2010, 11:02 AM
JBryan
Apr 8 2010, 11:00 AM
You are confused about a few things. This "law on the books since WWII" was a Supreme Court ruling. The Supreme Court does not pass laws (or, at least, it shouldn't) it interprets the Constitution. In this case it found that what Rossevelt was doing was supported by the Constitution. In other words, this "law on the books" was in existence since the beginning of the republic. Next, this law ruling was not "given teeth" after 9/11. It was just as much in force in all the time intervening. Finally, where are these people who supported Bush and are now calling Obama a traitor for doing the same things Bush did? You seem to keep dancing around that one.
right here.

These forums are good samples of the broader population. Why wait for the media filters to sanitize and sugarcoat it? The raw news is much more informative.
WHO HERE IS CALLING OBAMA A TRAITOR FOR DOING WHAT BUSH DID!!!!

Jesus H. Christ.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
It's the secret posts, JB. The ones you and I cannot see.

Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
Jeez, Big John. It has nothing to do with Obama being a Democrat and Bush being a Republican. It's because Bush was white and Obama's half black. Get with the times...





This post was made completely in jest and does not reflect the views or beliefs of the poster. Any opinions regarding this jest, and believing that it's made to reflect the true opinions of this poster are erroneous and those that hold these opinions can kiss my @ss. We now continue with our regular thread.
Edited by Luke's Dad, Apr 8 2010, 11:39 AM.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Mikhailoh
Apr 8 2010, 11:32 AM
It's the secret posts, JB. The ones you and I cannot see.

I seem to remember that you said Bush was a Churchillian figure and Obama's actions are deeply, deeply worrying. I'm assuming you didn't mean Churchillian to be an insult. Now, a brief perusal of the history books will quickly reveal that Winston wasn't at all big on the human rights of the individual by today's standards. We (by 'we' I mean Churchill and myself, two very great men in my humble opinion) have always enjoyed shooting at foreigners, whether the shooting is metaphorical or literal - it takes our mind off the English weather and food, and if British people get uppity, we'll shoot at them too.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Big John
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JBryan:

What I'm saying is, why is it an issue NOW, as in would people have been this indignant had it happened a few years ago?

I recall the ACLU saying our civil liberties were at stake and anyone who disagreed with any action the prior administration took were labeled socialists or anti-American.

We've got an American soldier (and presumably US citizen) over there right now who stands a good chance of getting his head lopped off and people are concerned about the rights of a self-avowed terrorist?

I understand the precedent that POTUS's action sets, but this extreme threat to civil liberties isn't new. The only thing that's changed is the person giving the order.






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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Hogwash. When did Bush ever authorize the assassination of an American citizen, wherever and whenever we could find them and under whatever circumstances?
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Free Rider
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Fulla-Carp
I have nothing really to comment except that I would sure hate to be Anwar al-Awlaki right about now.

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John D'Oh
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Mikhailoh
Apr 8 2010, 12:55 PM
Hogwash. When did Bush ever authorize the assassination of an American citizen, wherever and whenever we could find them and under whatever circumstances?
What happens in a war when someone decides to fight for the other side? I don't understand why this particular assassination worries you so much.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
You already know the answer to that. It lies in the constitution.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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John D'Oh
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Mikhailoh
Apr 8 2010, 02:21 PM
You already know the answer to that. It lies in the constitution.
In my opinion, the tragedy of war is how many innocent civilians die, not some whackjob American who turned his back on his own people.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
We're not talking about tragedy. We're talking about the limits of power of the presidency.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
The Supreme Court seems to back Obama on this issue and I tend to agree. It is tempting to think that this is something that might be abused but to be realistic the president has the power to kill anyone he wants with all that is arrayed at his fingertips. The question is does he have the authority and the Constitution seems to support the notion that once the president has been given authorization by Congress to use military force then he can target our enemies whether they happen to be citizens or not. If any president were to abuse this authority (and please remember that any president has the power to waste someone with or without that authority) then he is subject to being voted out, impeached or even to criminal sanctions. Again, any rogue president can do this regardless of whether he has authority or is going beyond that authority.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Mikhailoh
Apr 8 2010, 02:46 PM
We're not talking about tragedy. We're talking about the limits of power of the presidency.
I find human tragedy a more compelling topic than the legalistic analysis of the US Constitution. Let's face it, Obama didn't start this brave new world we currently live in.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Kincaid
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HOLY CARP!!!
I think the who idea of hypocrisy on this issue is more to do with the "left" or the Obamaphiles. I think most people realize that Obama has proven to be pretty pragmatic on foreign policy. In this area I support him. I know it would be nice to be able to capture this guy and try him in court for treason, but since that is unlikely and since actionable intelligence seems to say his death might stop who knows what kind of attack from occurring, I say dispatch him with a predator drone missle as soon as we have a good idea what rock he is under.
Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
John D'Oh
Apr 8 2010, 03:00 PM
Mikhailoh
Apr 8 2010, 02:46 PM
We're not talking about tragedy. We're talking about the limits of power of the presidency.
I find human tragedy a more compelling topic than the legalistic analysis of the US Constitution. Let's face it, Obama didn't start this brave new world we currently live in.
I'm sure you do. But that's not the topic, now, is it?
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Mikhailoh
Apr 8 2010, 03:42 PM
John D'Oh
Apr 8 2010, 03:00 PM
Mikhailoh
Apr 8 2010, 02:46 PM
We're not talking about tragedy. We're talking about the limits of power of the presidency.
I find human tragedy a more compelling topic than the legalistic analysis of the US Constitution. Let's face it, Obama didn't start this brave new world we currently live in.
I'm sure you do. But that's not the topic, now, is it?
Sometimes it's worth stepping back and looking at the bigger picture.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
You should mind what you step in when going backwards. :lol2:

Damn I'm glad you came back. How ya gonna keep 'em off the farm?
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Kincaid
Apr 8 2010, 03:31 PM
I think the who idea of hypocrisy on this issue is more to do with the "left" or the Obamaphiles. I think most people realize that Obama has proven to be pretty pragmatic on foreign policy. In this area I support him. I know it would be nice to be able to capture this guy and try him in court for treason, but since that is unlikely and since actionable intelligence seems to say his death might stop who knows what kind of attack from occurring, I say dispatch him with a predator drone missle as soon as we have a good idea what rock he is under.
Obama is neither as great as the left paint him or as bad as the right do. He's just another bloke trying to get by in a difficult and frequently incomprehensible world.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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John Galt
Fulla-Carp
D'Oh, you need to write a book. "Quotations from Chairman D'ao" or something along those lines.

Every post is a potential sig line...
Let us begin anew, remembering on both sides that civility is not a sign of weakness.
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