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| Obama authorizes assassination of American citizen | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 8 2010, 03:52 AM (995 Views) | |
| Mikhailoh | Apr 8 2010, 03:52 AM Post #1 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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Hat tip to Daniel at WTF. This, from Salon, is scary.
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| Big John | Apr 8 2010, 04:28 AM Post #2 |
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Senior Carp
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this is the patriot act in action. i see nothing different. when bush implemented it, it was freedom on the march. Dissent was giving comfort to terrorists and we were either with him, or with the terrorists. NOW, if we support him in the same campaign, we are supporting tyranny. It's almost funny when you think about it. Just change the leader's skin color and the opposite values apply. |
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| JBryan | Apr 8 2010, 04:52 AM Post #3 |
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I am the grey one
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This has absolutely nothing to do with the Patriot Act. The President is excercising his powers under the Constitution and authority given him by Congress under the Authorization for Use of Military Force to deal with enemy combatants. There is nothing extraordinary about the fact that this guy is a US citizen. The Supreme Court under Quirin upheld the President's authority to treat a US citizen as an enemy combatant. Again, this has nothing whatever to do with the Patriot Act, the evil Booosh or, for that matter, the evil Roosevelt (president at the time of Quirin). |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| Big John | Apr 8 2010, 05:11 AM Post #4 |
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Senior Carp
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this computer I'm using doesn't always post when I hit send. Quirin's rule languished from 1942 to 2001. Everything changed after 9/11. Edited by Big John, Apr 8 2010, 05:12 AM.
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| JBryan | Apr 8 2010, 05:25 AM Post #5 |
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I am the grey one
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What on earth are you talking about? Nothing changed. Quirin became Supreme Court precedent when it was handed down and has remained so to this day. 9/11 had no effect on it whatsoever. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| John D'Oh | Apr 8 2010, 05:39 AM Post #6 |
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MAMIL
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What's special about US citizens? If he can assassinate a foreigner, I don't see why he can't do the same to a citizen. Citizenship is just a piece of paper, not a Divine Right to be treated differently from the rest of the world, barring queing up at immigration for freaking hours, as I know all too well. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| Big John | Apr 8 2010, 07:41 AM Post #7 |
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Senior Carp
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from wikipedia:
The important thing is that the power over this switched from Congress to the chief executive. My argument is that no one batted an eye in the wake of 9/11. When liberals were screaming that it was a blow against the constitution, they were accused of giving comfort to terrorists. NOW, the opposite is true. It's fashionable now to oppose everything that was implemented amidst much pomp and circumstance in late September 2001. THAT's what I find interesting. |
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| The 89th Key | Apr 8 2010, 07:49 AM Post #8 |
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I'm not an expert in any special rights American citizens have when overseas or this or that, compared to foreign enemies........but if that moron is helping terrorists attack the US, he is in an enemy and should be captured if possible, killed if necessary. Insert "all enemies, foreign and domestic" line here... |
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| JBryan | Apr 8 2010, 07:52 AM Post #9 |
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I am the grey one
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What you have cited here is precisely what I stated in my first post to this thread:
Now what part of that is a "switch of power from the Congress to the Chief Executive"? The Congress authorized the use of military force and under that authorization the Chief Executive excercised his powers under the Constitution as affirmed by Quirin. There was no more a "switch of power" after 9/11 then there was after Pearl Harbor. That power has always resided with the Chief Executive in time of war or use of military force. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| Big John | Apr 8 2010, 07:57 AM Post #10 |
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Senior Carp
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okay so we're not in disagreement then. I just think it's IRONIC that a law that has been on the books for more than 50 years is now getting scrutiny because someone has allegedly exercised their authority to use it. the blame is placed with Obama, when it should be placed on the laws and acts that give ever-increasing absolute power to an individual. I could have sworn that there was a "dead or alive" reward out for Osama Bin Laden. Maybe I was mistaken. |
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| OperaTenor | Apr 8 2010, 08:22 AM Post #11 |
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Pisa-Carp
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I opposed this behavior when GWB was in charge, and I oppose it now. It doesn't matter to me if it's law. It's unconstitutional, let alone immoral and unethical. It violates 1,200 years' precedence of respect for the individual. |
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| Mark | Apr 8 2010, 08:48 AM Post #12 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Nice try on playing the race card BJ. ![]() WTF??? I agree with OT. Fvck this law! It needs to be overturned and abolished. |
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___.___ (_]===* o 0 When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells | |
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| Axtremus | Apr 8 2010, 09:08 AM Post #13 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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+1 |
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| OperaTenor | Apr 8 2010, 09:16 AM Post #14 |
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Pisa-Carp
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Wow. If there are two or more people here who agree with me, this place *has* turned liberal... |
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| Big John | Apr 8 2010, 09:20 AM Post #15 |
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Senior Carp
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I opposed it when GWB was in power and got called a terrorist sympathizer. You can call it the race card if you want. I call it the GOP knee-jerk oppose-anything-Obama card. If Obama decided to give a $100 million dollar reward to anyone who could bring him the head of Osama bin Laden, the GOP would figure out a way to make people support amnesty for him. It's the 180-degree turnabout that is most interesting for me. |
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| JBryan | Apr 8 2010, 09:22 AM Post #16 |
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I am the grey one
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Who in the GOP is opposing this? |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| Mark | Apr 8 2010, 09:23 AM Post #17 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I see that BJ. Mostly on the Democrat side but it also exists on the Republican side. |
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___.___ (_]===* o 0 When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells | |
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| Big John | Apr 8 2010, 09:25 AM Post #18 |
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Senior Carp
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for me, GOP is synonymous with conservative. |
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| Aqua Letifer | Apr 8 2010, 09:28 AM Post #19 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| JBryan | Apr 8 2010, 09:58 AM Post #20 |
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I am the grey one
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GOP does not equal Conservative. However, what Conservatives are against this. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| Mikhailoh | Apr 8 2010, 10:14 AM Post #21 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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Given that it follows huge debate and posturing about the rights we should grant to non-citizen enemy combatants, it seems a bit off kilter. As a friend of mine is wont to say, if it weren't for hypocrisy they'd have no values at all. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| big al | Apr 8 2010, 10:45 AM Post #22 |
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Bull-Carp
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Consider an analogy. If someone is holding a gun and threatening to shoot hostages in an apartment, a sniper's shot to kill him and save the hostages is justifiable homicide. If he's holding a gun, there are no hostages at hand and no threat is imminent, he can surrender the gun and come out or risk the consequences of trying to fight or flee. I don't see this situation as being fundamentally different except the person in question is apparently in Yemen, not an apartment in Manhattan. Am I misunderstanding what is moral and legal in such situations? Big Al |
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Location: Western PA "jesu, der simcha fun der man's farlangen." -bachophile | |
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| Aqua Letifer | Apr 8 2010, 10:48 AM Post #23 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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I don't think it's that; to my mind the problem is that we don't know this guy's background, and need a trial to determine if he's even a threat. |
| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| Big John | Apr 8 2010, 10:52 AM Post #24 |
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Senior Carp
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Big Al, I don't understand the turnabout. A few years ago, an American citizen who supported Al-Qaida or the Taliban would have been lynched. Now it seems that as long as you are an American citizen nothing short of complete amnesty is fair. Hence the analogy to the beheadings in the other thread. I think this is an issue because Obama the democratic president currently in power approved it and the knee-jerk reaction is to suspect anything that the anti-christ beast does. So, since he approved the assassination of a US citizen by invoking a law that's been on the books since WWII and which was given teeth in September of 2001, HE's the traitor. It's just odd. Just watch. Pretty soon the tea partiers will be burning flags and everyone will applaud and wipe tears from their eyes from the display of patriotism. |
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| JBryan | Apr 8 2010, 11:00 AM Post #25 |
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I am the grey one
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You are confused about a few things. This "law on the books since WWII" was a Supreme Court ruling. The Supreme Court does not pass laws (or, at least, it shouldn't) it interprets the Constitution. In this case it found that what Rossevelt was doing was supported by the Constitution. In other words, this "law on the books" was in existence since the beginning of the republic. Next, this |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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4:26 PM Jul 10